RPGNow Expanding...

[eyebeams]

There is no call to make a personal remark.

My comments are based on my own feelings towards gaming, not any perceived business success or failure on my part or that of any other gaming company. I don't resent any company their success and my expectations of achievement are my own to judge, not yours. Have you even bothered to find anything out about my compamy, its reputation, its projects before commenting that I resent other peoples success because I've haven't worked to succeed, its a fairly insulting comment!

Since I qualified the statement with an "If," I obviously meant an impersonal "you." Whether or not you choose to take what I said as being representative of your particular enterprise is none of my business.

Where do I mention companies banking on their name.

I was responding to the assertion, made elsewhere, that it wasn't fair for companies to bank on their reputation as well as the raw quality of individual products.

I say RPGNow allowed them to grow big, which it did. How does this imply I think I'm entitled to consideration. It implies I'd like to such opportunities occur for other companies and hope the industry will encourage this.

Why should it encourage people to continue to split a shrinking marketshare and contribute to the rather poor economic prospects for everyone else?

Frankly, I write for pleasure and the money keeps me in CCGs. If that doesn't meet your standard of business commitment, well I'm not heartbroken and my cyberpunk cops deck is looking pretty good . Besides I know how good my material is and don't need you, commercial success or perceived industry status to tell me, god that sounds really arrogant , its thats mechanics maestros review arrgh that deafeats my own argument

If you don't need any of it, then give it up. If you're interested in making a real business of it, then do so. The choice is simple.

Solidarity small, uncommitted, second rate publishers of the world you have nothing loose but your lack of professionalism

You could always exercise your solidarity by banding together and forming your own .pdf storefront, couldn't you?

 

[WilliamAndersen]

I guess now the bigger publishers can quit whining about the "hobbyists" stealing their sales.

Let us be honest: moving the lower-sales vendors to a separate site might provide them with more exposure, or it might not. It depends how much RPGNow is willing to spend to promote both sites. But this move isn't about increasing exposure to the smaller vendors, is it?
<snip>
As a customer, I love RPGNow, and I can even see how this move might make shopping there easier. As an aspiring vendor, I am now incredibly wary. The best place to break into the RPG industry has now become much more of a gauntlet.

Very insightful and well thought out post...

I have also heard a lot of bigger publishers complain that the smaller publishers (which they often like to refer to as 'hobbyist', as if there is something wrong with being a hobbyist int he hobby industry) are taking sales and preventing the big publishers from making a good living doing this full time.

The reality is, a growing number of game designers and small publishers are being able to do this full time (perhaps different ones from who used to be able to, but there are still some).

From personal experience, my little game company (which to the chagrin of some bigger publishers is built on the games first, and sales has been a secondary priority) has only been around since May. In that time, we have gone to be #80 in sales (59 last month) on RPGNow. As I looked thru various reports, there are a number of companies that are far more impressive in sales growth than us.

We are going to be on the Edge, and we are okay with that... the truth of the matter is, there is a lot of very high quality material that is going to be on the Edge. If some of the larger publishers do not want to compete with the smaller publishers, then that is fine and understandable. I encourage you, however, to get 'into the game'... there is plenty of room, and as customers have experience on the Edge, they will find that to be the case.

The earlier post that mentioned that people can shop on the featured site to avoid getting the 'gotcha' products is an unfortunate remark... there are many very good products that will be on the Edge (as James is saying), but it is an effective way to protect the larger publishers and keep them on RPGNow.

William
ComStar Media, LLC
http://www.comstar-media.com
http://www.comstar-games.com

 

[WilliamAndersen]

To be fair, though, still much less of a gauntlet than breaking in on the print side of things...and honestly, anything that makes people think before leaping is always a good thing.

Well put...

Someone should certainly think before leaping... Many of the small publishers that are being put on the Edge are the very fast growers. These publishers are coming out with some very good products, and reaching out to gamers. They do run their companies with the game in mind (even more than the 'bottom line' of sales sometimes), and are doing quite well.

If a publisher is starting out and 'has to start on the Edge', that really is an opportunity to have products up against some of the most innovative and fast growing companies in the industry.

William

 

[WilliamAndersen]

Would I *want* to debut on the main site? Absolutely.

Would I have earned it? Not really.

And for the record, I am an edge vendor.

I still sell the two products that got me started (out of nostalgia more than anything else) and they are going to the edge site.

Chuck

Chuck,

I am confused... is your company on the Edge, or are you able to put products on both the Edge and the Main site?

William

 

[malladin]

Quote: Since I qualified the statement with an "If," I obviously meant an impersonal "you." Whether or not you choose to take what I said as being representative of your particular enterprise is none of my business.

Not in UK english, so far as I know, but I'm not an expert so lets just put that down to misunderstanding. But its still pretty insulting to assume people didn't make it big because they didn't work hard enough and resent other people for their success. Your imposing your criteria for success and entitlement to be considered a proper publisher onto the situation. You shouldn't do this unless everyone voted you ruler of the world while I was offline, damn going to have to stop those toilet breaks, I miss all the important stuff

Quote: Why should it encourage people to continue to split a shrinking marketshare and contribute to the rather poor economic prospects for everyone else?

As I said earlier, industry needs new blood, remembering how you got where you are and giving people the same breaks you got, sure its not an obligation but it ain't a bad way to behave and not everyone worships the great god dollar!

Quote: If you don't need any of it, then give it up. If you're interested in making a real business of it, then do so. The choice is simple.

Why, I'm happy with the way things are, it's really is good cops deck with an oni's badge and everything and I need the money because singles are expensive Seriously though, I respect your right to an opinion, but don't have to base my choices on it anymore than RPGNow has to on mine, so I'll carry on as is. If RPGNow choose to withdraw their services from people like me, well we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions, thats life!

Ultimately, my initial feeling of arguments in circles is correct. Any deeper on this argument goes into politics and ideology which this is not the place for.

Eyebeam, good luck to you. I'm off to find a thread where I can exchange glib witicisms.

Nigel

PS: Roudi, love the hat dude

 

[Vigilance]

Chuck,

I am confused... is your company on the Edge, or are you able to put products on both the Edge and the Main site?

William

RPGObjects, the company I work for and produce all my books for these days is on the main RPGNow site.

Vigilance Press, the company name underwhich I self-published the PDFs that got me started in the industry is moving to the Edge site, where it will continue to offer those original two books.

Chuck

 

[Vigilance]

As I said earlier, industry needs new blood, remembering how you got where you are and giving people the same breaks you got, sure its not an obligation but it ain't a bad way to behave and not everyone worships the great god dollar!

The industry still has a source of new blood.

There will still be a site available for anyone, regardless of commitment level, professional resume and so forth.

I realize its not the site of your choice but please don't continue saying there's no site for "new blood" or those who "just want to contribute to the hobby they love".

Chuck

 

[BryonD]

If they owe nobody anything why should we owe them any thanks?

Because they paved the way for this market to be what it is today. Just a thought.
They did something that helped the market, a nice thanks is reasonable.

However, i'm not arguing over business sense or making presumptions, I've said I respect the decision thats been made, but as an industry we need some ways to promote new talent and you hope to see that from industry leaders. I'm not talking about obligation but opportunity. There are arguments for both sides of the case over whats happening at RPGnow and frankly I feel the arguments here are just going to go round in circles. Only time will tell whether the changes are for the better or worse and being unable to see into the future I'll wait and see what happens.

Then you shouldn't have any complaint that is relevent to the topic of this thread.

But I haven't seen any argument for the other side that doesn't end up being some version of RPGnow owes me. So I guess whether or not there really are arguments for both sides depends on if you demand validity or not.

 

[BryonD]

You could always exercise your solidarity by banding together and forming your own .pdf storefront, couldn't you?

Everybody knows the answer to that one.
The MAN is keeping them down, it isn't fair, you're asking to much.....
blah blah blah
Just have someone else do it for me, otherwise you're mean.

:\

 

[malladin]

Quote: The industry still has a source of new blood. There will still be a site available for anyone, regardless of commitment level, professional resume and so forth. I realize its not the site of your choice but please don't continue saying there's no site for "new blood" or those who "just want to contribute to the hobby they love".

I promised myself no more replys to this thread but just for you chuck given your a long time contemporary whose ideas I respect. We don't agree, which is cool and healthy for debate, and I tried hard in the first post to get embroiled in the argument about the rights and wrongs of RPGNows decision. I have tried to address replies to eyebeam and his comments about how we should be greatful to even have a second site and his imposition of hallmarks of professionalism and success on everybody else, not to mention for fun. But don't ask me not to say what I believe. I don't believe the Edge will offer the same exposure, perception of worth and opportunity to new publishers and that people will be put off starting, which isn't a good thing for the reasons myself and others have stated. If people who want expand their business do not perceive the edge as an opportunity to create freely and be taken seriously so their companies grow, then it won't be. This is probably why you wish I'd stop saying the above. I'm sure you feel it will be, but neither of us can be sure. I hope I'm wrong and your right as I love this industry, even more than my cop deck and RPGNow got me started in this business so I've a soft spot for it, and it keeps me in CCG cards . . I've as much right to put my perceptions forward as you chuck, people reading this can form their own opinions based upon our reasoning and presentation of argument, and I hope you will respect that. Lets give it some time and see whose right and hope, whatever happens, the industry we all want to see succeed goes forward successfully.