RPGs of the Renaissance

[Reynard]

This is fascinating.

tl;dr: They played RPGs in early modern courts.

I have to run to a statics exam but will try and comment more later.

 

[innerdude]

I think I've commented on a thread elsewhere that if RPGs hadn't started from war gaming, they'd likely have started from something along these lines.

A parlour game, with cards + dice + other randomizers, with roles and modes of play, with the intent of telling a story or just enjoying the drama and intrigue of creating a story.

At the time I was mostly theorizing, having played games like Coup, One Night Ultimate Werewolf, Salem 1692, Mysterium, etc.

But it's nice to see that history backs up my theorizing at least a little bit.

 

[schneeland]

Nice! Thanks for sharing! (only skimmed it so far, but it looks quite interesting)

 

[aia_2]

Mhhh... I am sceptical... There is a little voice that tells me i need to look at this better... I read many years ago a similar article where the origins of RPG was the game for kids "let's pretend" which was played at the time of the roman empire...

 

[Reynard]

Mhhh... I am sceptical... There is a little voice that tells me i need to look at this better... I read many years ago a similar article where the origins of RPG was the game for kids "let's pretend" which was played at the time of the roman empire...

You are skeptical of the sources, or skeptical that there is a connection to the modern RPG?

In the former case, i don't know what to say because I am not a historian by education so I tend to assume these things are well sourced.

In the latter case, this article in particular isn't saying that Gygax and Arneson got the idea from Renaissance parlor games, just that the idea of games of pretend with actual rules and procedures have been around a long time.

 

[overgeeked]

That's cool. Thanks for sharing.

But it all depends on how you define role-playing game. We can't even agree on what that means today.

Modern RPGs did spring from wargames though. Playing at the World and the Elusive Shift are great sources for that history. I have no doubt that games we would recognize as RPGs existed long before Wesley and Arneson (re-)invented them.

 

[Reynard]

That's cool. Thanks for sharing.

But it all depends on how you define role-playing game. We can't even agree on what that means today.

Modern RPGs did spring from wargames though. Playing at the World and the Elusive Shift are great sources for that history. I have no doubt that games we would recognize as RPGs existed long before Wesley and Arneson (re-)invented them.

My gut says that if something recognizably RPG-y existed in Renaissance courts, it probably existed in Ancient Egyptian courts, too. Humans playing pretend is a key feature of our neurology, as is putting structure around things.

 

[BookTenTiger]

My gut says that if something recognizably RPG-y existed in Renaissance courts, it probably existed in Ancient Egyptian courts, too. Humans playing pretend is a key feature of our neurology, as is putting structure around things.

Exactly my thoughts. I'm sure RPGs have been reinvented time and time again throughout human history.

This was a really fascinating read! It's always fun to make connections with people in the past.

 

[overgeeked]

My gut says that if something recognizably RPG-y existed in Renaissance courts, it probably existed in Ancient Egyptian courts, too. Humans playing pretend is a key feature of our neurology, as is putting structure around things.

Absolutely. And all you have to do is add some kind of randomizer and you’re that much closer to what’s recognizable as a modern RPG.

We’ve told stories as long as we’ve existed. I have no doubt that goes into deep evolutionary time. Same with games of all kinds. It likely didn’t take long to combine those two ideas. But it’s likely not until we had leisure time that structured games of let’s pretend evolved. Sometime after agriculture and skill specialization.

But who knows. After a big hunt, neanderthals probably sat around and told stories and threw dice. For all we know most of the debris archeologists find that they say has “religious significance” is gaming gear and cave paintings were character sheets.

 

[Reynard]

Absolutely. And all you have to do is add some kind of randomizer and you’re that much closer to what’s recognizable as a modern RPG.

We’ve told stories as long as we’ve existed. I have no doubt that goes into deep evolutionary time. Same with games of all kinds. It likely didn’t take long to combine those two ideas. But it’s likely not until we had leisure time that structured games of let’s pretend evolved. Sometime after agriculture and skill specialization.

But who knows. After a big hunt, neanderthals probably sat around and told stories and threw dice. For all we know most of the debris archeologists find that they say has “religious significance” is gaming gear and cave paintings were character sheets.

Pre-agriculture people had significantly more leisure time than those that came after.

they also died very young, so...