RttToEE any good?

[Plane Sailing]

I don't like it.

I've been running it but the PC's are in the crater ridge mines and it is so boring and predictable that it is almost making my ears bleed. The stupid separation of NPC's into alphabetical order at the back instead of, I dunno, actually putting their stats in the ROOMS makes running things a pain, far too many creatures are "automatically attacks anything" which makes sneaking and bluffing difficult, huge chunks of the dungeon "ecology" don't make any sense to me, and the final sections have far too many "touch this and you're dead" things.

It is the most non-fun module that I've run, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it as the central part of a campaign.

That being said, I know that plenty of other people have had great fun with it. Dr Midnights storyhour (knights of the silver quill) is great fun and a good read, plus he has some ideas for integrating it into the campaign world which are better than the book itself, so I'd definitely give those a read.

Cheers

 

[Gregor]

Thanks everyone, your replies have been much appreciated. However, I have another question, how does RttToEE hold up to say.....CotSQ in terms of mega modules? I know they are very different but have people had more fun with one than the other? Plus this whole "out of print" thing kind of stinks.

Keep em coming, thanks again!

Cheers,

 

[billd91]

It also is as Greyhawk as it comes, if you run it the way its written. This again, is neither good nor bad, just a fact.

Anyway, if you do run it, I suggest you have a few more side plots and maybe some NPC rival adventurers/allies, as well as some politics thrown in, because RttTOEE feels a big bogged down once you get to the Crater Ridge Mines.

I don't like it very much and here's why:

Like the original, it's a big of a dungeon-crawl grind and that can get very boring if you don't follow Cyronax's advice about sub-plots to mix things up.

The dungeons seem to be the most bizarre hodge-podge of monster. They've been picked more for the challenge rating than any real logic to their placement. Add to that an odd assortment of half dragons and dinosaurs (and an overuse of dragons).

As far as being as Greyhawk as they come, I'm a little surprised to hear that. By my reading, and other reviews I've seen, this is a Greyhawk module that has very little Greyhawk in it. For one thing, you've got dinosaurs in an old and relatively well-settled mountain range in the middle of the temperate Flanaess. There are also orcs cooperating with dwarves only one generation after the two races fought a war of annihilation in the same range.
It just uses Greyhawk as a background, there's really very little continuity between it and other major Greyhawk modules.

 

[d12]

I don't think the mod overuses dragons. There's 3 dragons total and 5 total if you count the half-dragons. Over 10 character levels that's not too many.

I give the mod a big thumbs up. I suggest you trim a few encounters from the big dungeon in the middle - the ones that aren't really tied to the plot. Replace these with side quests. Also, I worked several characters' backstory into the module. Try to do this and I think your players will enjoy it more. I had an average of 1.2 deaths per player over the course of the adventure plus a few NPC deaths. Not too bad for a ten level adventure.

 

[johnsemlak]

Minor Spoilers















As far as the use of Greyhawk, I don't like the tying in of Tharizdun and the EEG to the ToEE. It becomes more like the Return to the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun.

 

[pogre]

Somebody already stated: it depends on your group.

If they like huge dungeons with lots of hacking opportunities - they will love this module.

The problem we had with it was it never seemed to end. That can be a big positive, but for us it turned to boredom - and this was a group that loved to hack!

Still, it was fun to read - I certainly would spend the money again.

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

You can read a couple more reviews here

TS

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I don't like it very much and here's why:

Like the original, it's a big of a dungeon-crawl grind and that can get very boring if you don't follow Cyronax's advice about sub-plots to mix things up.

The dungeons seem to be the most bizarre hodge-podge of monster. They've been picked more for the challenge rating than any real logic to their placement. Add to that an odd assortment of half dragons and dinosaurs (and an overuse of dragons).

As far as being as Greyhawk as they come, I'm a little surprised to hear that. By my reading, and other reviews I've seen, this is a Greyhawk module that has very little Greyhawk in it. For one thing, you've got dinosaurs in an old and relatively well-settled mountain range in the middle of the temperate Flanaess. There are also orcs cooperating with dwarves only one generation after the two races fought a war of annihilation in the same range.
It just uses Greyhawk as a background, there's really very little continuity between it and other major Greyhawk modules.

Bingo, it and the original Temple of Elemental Evil have little in common as Monte has basically said that the stuff we learned from playing or running the first module was wrong. It's got Greyhawk gods and towns but it lacks the connection to the classic Greyhawk mods due to Monte's screwing around. And while I left the first dragon in it, I had to get rid of all the others. It was overkill.

I'm still waiting for the first true Greyhawk module for 3e, not counting stuff like the adventure EGG put in the Slayer's guide to Dragons which is very Greyhawk with different names, and I don't think I ever will see it.

 

[Cyronax]

Minor Spoilers

As far as the use of Greyhawk, I don't like the tying in of Tharizdun and the EEG to the ToEE. It becomes more like the Return to the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun.

Well maybe I overstated it a bit, but I think do that RttTOEE, regardless of how well you think it was done, draws on a huge chapter of GH lore.

This module basically could take the GH world through dramatic and climatic changes comprable to EGG's old Gord books. I don't remember which one, but in one (or all) the main thrust of the story was that Big T annihilates Greyhawk.

If Greyhawk is looked at from the totality of its unofficial and official 1e and 2e incarnations, it IS the world most likely to be destroyed by such an event. FR has too many statted and annoying 'heroes,' and the other worlds.....i'll mention if anyone contests this point.

Iuz, Zuggtmoy, etc. are just paltry demon (princes) and the RttTOEE is the first module that really introduces the release of a Cthonic entity into an official (D&D) game world. Now granted you'd have to expand the climax a lot more in order for the other elemental lords to come to Oerth and eventually free Tharizdun, but I maintain this is a GH adventure.

And SURE the Lortmils were cleared of orcs during the Hateful Wars and other conflicts, but the GH Wars reshaped Oerth's balance of power, and to say an organization as wide spread and possibly even more insidious than the Scarlet Brotherhood could not keep their growth secret is absurd.

Besides, the CRM and the ToAC could have been a project in the works for a long long time. I forget what the module says, but when i ran the campaign (in my own world, but with the set up basically the same), I considered the Cult of Tharizdun to have been preparing the CRM and ToAC for centuries. The actual ToEE itself was just a premature......uh.... "ejaculation of their plan". Their main mistake was locating it soo close to a Good area......and that's what leads to the their downfall.

Bah enough of that. All rationalizations and ramblings....anyway, there are holes to any plot. GH is no stranger to inconsistency. RttTOEE is as Greyhawk as Undermountain is FR.

Both could be transplanted relatively easily by even a novice DM to most types of worlds.

Lowering my defenses ,
C.I.D.

 

[Ron]

I've played from begining to the end. As the original Temple, it does start pretty well -- although not even close to be as good as the original T1 -- but start loosing punch as it develops. Most of the module is a massive dungeon that doesn't makes much sense. The encounters are well planned and they interlace weak and challenging adversaries. However, in several occasions, the DM has to justify some BS of the dungeon design as the result of some chaotic followers. After a while, it became tiresome. As we got near to the end, playing it became more a question of honor than true entertaining.

Also, as many people have said, there are too many dragons -- I prefer them to be rare so encounters with them are not mundane -- and the module doesn't fits well with Greyhawk, specially in regard to the original Temple.