Ruined forever

[Hussar]

Umm, you do realise that Torchwood and UNIT were incapable of stopping a single Dalek right? The 458 were meant to be on that tech level. There was no stopping them. Heck, they didn't even have a ship that we ever saw.

Heck, UNIT was incapable of stopping the Sauntarans (sp). What makes you think that they could stop these aliens?

 

[billd91]

That has probably more to do with the script which was a product of their time.
The Original Kirk, Spock & Co were experienced and serious officers most of the time, because when the series was made that was kinda the "role model" of the society.
But today? People (at least the ones JJTreck is marketed to) want youthful and cool people who rebel against the system and also have some serious angst filled drama. So the roles of Kirk and Spock got rewritten and because of the "cool youth" and "rebel" requirement they come off as a lot less mature as the original, even though the actors themselves are about the same age.

I think part of it may also be that the original series actors were much older than I was when I first saw them, whereas the reboot actors are all younger than I am. They don't have the same "adultness" in my eyes that the originals had to my elementary school eyes.

 

[sabrinathecat]

Umm, you do realise that Torchwood and UNIT were incapable of stopping a single Dalek right? The 458 were meant to be on that tech level. There was no stopping them. Heck, they didn't even have a ship that we ever saw.

Heck, UNIT was incapable of stopping the Sauntarans (sp). What makes you think that they could stop these aliens?

Um, Ace blew up Daleks with 1963 technology.
UNIT had bullets designed to pierce Dalek casings in 1989.
Torchwood had a Dalek frozen in time at the entrance to their bunker, and if they used the other alien tech, could have done who knows what.

With the right weapons and ammunition, there is no reason that UNIT couldn't take down Sontarans. Oh wait--they did kill more than a few. But UNIT did not have space ships or the numbers on the ground at the beginning of that fight.

If the 458 (or whatever the number) didn't have space ships, what was the thing the probe went into that relayed the video of the children being suspended and fed from? I would call that a "ship" or "vessel" and thus a "Target"!

 

[delericho]

But what's the alternative? Resist and all the children are taken. Give up some chosen by lottery and the rest survive.

I can just about see a politician coming to that calculation. (Although even that's doubtful - discussing that option at cabinet level is political, and possibly actual, death for those involved.)

But the method was the big problem. The police and army would not go along with it. In fact, faced with those orders the most likely response is mass desertion - they have children of their own that they need to be at home to protect.

No. If the government decided that this was what had to be done, the method is as follows: calm everyone down, reopen the schools, wait a few days, and then as a "reward" to make up for the disruption you run an "unscheduled school trip" to a "chocolate factory". Because that way all the children are already together, under minimal adult supervision, and can be herded quietly and easily.

The approach the show presented ends only one way: revolution.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I think the main one for me would be How I Met Your Mother. Not only did I stop watching the show, but I found myself enjoying the first two seasons (which were great) a lot less. Ruined might be a bit strong, but knowing what it turned into... ugh.

Grey's Anatomy is another decent example. The show did a lot of really cool stuff in its first season with plays on gender roles and did a decent job capturing the diversity of a hospital environment. Then it became terrible, and I just don't appreciate the first season like I did when I first saw it.

The latter seasons of Heroes had a similar effect for me - highlighted just how shallow the show actually was.

 

[Jester David]

I don't put much thought into things being "ruined forever" as they can often easily be fixed. There' same lot if talk of things like Doctor Who and the Abrams Trek, which are things "ruined" until the next person takes over. Franchises are hard to permanently destroy.

Superhero comics are the closest for me. I was unimpressed by the New 52 but stuck out the changes for a couple years until they cancelled Hellblazer to force Constantine into the New 52, at which point I dropped all my regular DC books (sticking out on a few Vertigo books until they end).
Similarly, I dropped Marvel after Brand New Day in the Spidey books. When they basically undid every single Spider-man book I owned. I was growing disenfranchised with Marvel anyway with their constant events that shook the status quo, which all fell flat given the "status quo" had only been in place six months since the last Event ended. I blame Bendis for that, not being the fan for that writer.

 

[Hussar]

I can just about see a politician coming to that calculation. (Although even that's doubtful - discussing that option at cabinet level is political, and possibly actual, death for those involved.)

But the method was the big problem. The police and army would not go along with it. In fact, faced with those orders the most likely response is mass desertion - they have children of their own that they need to be at home to protect.

No. If the government decided that this was what had to be done, the method is as follows: calm everyone down, reopen the schools, wait a few days, and then as a "reward" to make up for the disruption you run an "unscheduled school trip" to a "chocolate factory". Because that way all the children are already together, under minimal adult supervision, and can be herded quietly and easily.

The approach the show presented ends only one way: revolution.

Ehh, I have a lot less faith in things than you. There are numerous real world examples and not that far in the past, of governments and militaries doing just that. Particularly when you add in class issues as well.

I mean, you revolt and all your children die. End of story. There was no other alternative. There was no fighting the aliens. The reboot universe does not have humanity be all that technologically advanced - i.e. no Dalek penetrating bullets and that sort of thing. That was the basic premise of the story.

Then again, I absolutely love stories like The Cold Equations by Goddard. Not every problem actually can be solved. There are no timey wimpy, wobbly wobbly solutions sometimes makes a much better story.

 

[sabrinathecat]

Ehh, I have a lot less faith in things than you. There are numerous real world examples and not that far in the past, of governments and militaries doing just that. Particularly when you add in class issues as well.

I mean, you revolt and all your children die. End of story. There was no other alternative. There was no fighting the aliens. The reboot universe does not have humanity be all that technologically advanced - i.e. no Dalek penetrating bullets and that sort of thing. That was the basic premise of the story.

Then again, I absolutely love stories like The Cold Equations by Goddard. Not every problem actually can be solved. There are no timey wimpy, wobbly wobbly solutions sometimes makes a much better story.

But the very first time Torchwood was even mentioned, they DID have the technology to blow up a spaceship.
Even with the losses suffered in "Doomsday", Torchwood still has lots of gear. Lots and lots of gear.
There was a solution.
It may have been more convenient for the story to ignore the pre-existing, established details like that, but it is that sort of thinking that I call "Emotion over substance." Why was this ignored? Because it was easier. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.
There was an alternative. From the very beginning. How about "Don't blow up one of the two organizations that could solve the problem"? How about "Use all resources available"? How about "Let's employ rational thinking before descending into emotional stew"?

Now, I put the question to you as well: The Government just employed soldiers and police to steal your children. What could anyone possibly offer you that would allow you to permit that government, or anyone involved in government, to continue to exist?
Because just a few weeks later, it seems like everything is back to being hunky dory in the Torchwood universe awfully quickly.

 

[Goodsport]

Completely ruined forever? None that I can think of off the top of my head.

Sapped the enthusiasm for more new movies in a beloved series? Accomplished by watching Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (not that I don't necessarily want any more, just that i went from absolutely needing at least a fifth Indiana Jones movie to being okay with it either way whether they make a fifth one or not).


-G

 

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

Hannibal has ruined me forever on fancy meals, unless I am preparing and know what I put into them. National Lampoons Vacation ruined me on family long-drive vacations. Porn ruined me on sex with the guy who delivers the pizza.