D&D 5E Rule of Three 4/4

[Will Doyle]

D&D Next Q&A is up with some clarification about fighter maneuvers:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dndqa/20140404

1) Some fighter maneuvers allow you to combine actions that are available to other characters with your attack (e.g. a push combined with an attack). Others maneuvers are unique to the fighter (e.g. "Commander's Strike", which allows an ally to attack in your stead).

2) Some maneuvers require the target to make a save, others just happen.

3) Characters from other classes can use feats to gain access to maneuvers and superiority dice.

Personally, I'm loving this. I'm especially glad that maneuvers don't restrict other characters from attempting fundamental combat options such as push: fighters just do it better.

 

[GMMichael]

2) Some maneuvers require the target to make a save, others just happen.
. . . I'm especially glad that maneuvers don't restrict other characters from attempting fundamental combat options such as push: fighters just do it better.

Some allow saves, some don't? Here's a better question: what determines whether a defender should use AC, a saving throw, an opposed attack roll, or (what the heck) another maneuver to oppose a fighter-maneuver? Is there a line drawn, and where is it?

If Fighters actually do it better, the cherry-picking multiclassers out there will be in a frenzy. Good or bad, who's to say?

Assuming (still) Mr. Mearls wasn't April Fooling us, I'm curious to see what happens with this 4E leak in the 5E ship.

 

[TerraDave]

D&D Next Q&A is up with some clarification about fighter maneuvers:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dndqa/20140404


Personally, I'm loving this. I'm especially glad that maneuvers don't restrict other characters from attempting fundamental combat options such as push: fighters just do it better.

This has been my favorite one of these for a while. Every answer seemed just about....perfect.

 

[the Jester]

Some allow saves, some don't? Here's a better question: what determines whether a defender should use AC, a saving throw, an opposed attack roll, or (what the heck) another maneuver to oppose a fighter-maneuver? Is there a line drawn, and where is it?

I'd imagine the description of the maneuver itself will give some guidance on this.

If Fighters actually do it better, the cherry-picking multiclassers out there will be in a frenzy. Good or bad, who's to say?

How so? From what we've seen, the fighter subclass won't be available until the pc takes 3 levels of fighter. That's hardly a cherry pick IMHO; it's an entirely reasonable investment. Of course, we'll see when the game is actually released.

Assuming (still) Mr. Mearls wasn't April Fooling us, I'm curious to see what happens with this 4E leak in the 5E ship.

I'd hardly call this a "leak"- instead of compromising the game, it seems to be exactly what a lot of 4e players want (excepting the possible lack of a strong warlord option).

 

[Sage Genesis]

Some allow saves, some don't? Here's a better question: what determines whether a defender should use AC, a saving throw, an opposed attack roll, or (what the heck) another maneuver to oppose a fighter-maneuver? Is there a line drawn, and where is it?

That's not so hard. The Push maneuver is not currently in the playtest packet but the knockdown maneuver is, and it (currently) requires an opposed strength check but I imagine they'll change it to a saving throw (probably DC 8 + Str mod + proficiency).

So, if we assume that to be true based on the Q&A and we also know that the Pushing Attack is really just two actions for the price of one, then we know that performing this action:
1. Attack with a bonus damage die, using normal attack vs. AC mechanics.
2. Force the target to make a save or be pushed back (regardless of whether the damaging portion of the attack hit).

 

[Plaguescarred]

I am glad to hear maneuvers allow fighters to do things better than other can in addition to doing some unique things other normally can't

I expect to see some effects need a check or saving throws, but i like the idea of always getting something in return when spending a superiority die, wether its a bonus or something else.

I am glad to hear maneuvers will be available through feats like the Magic Adept feat for exemple.

 

[Thaumaturge]

If Fighters actually do it better, the cherry-picking multiclassers out there will be in a frenzy. Good or bad, who's to say?

Seems like it would be easier to just spend a feat to get the maneuvers than spend 3 character levels.

And I agree with the Jester, 3 levels of investment is hardly a "cherry pick" in the traditional sense.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Thaumaturge]

I'd hardly call this a "leak"- instead of compromising the game, it seems to be exactly what a lot of 4e players want (excepting the possible lack of a strong warlord option).

I'd go further than that—I'm not a huge 4e fan, but if the combat options had be presented this way in that edition, I probably would have been much more on board.

Thaumaturge.

Caveats: I played and DM'd 4e, but it's probably my least favorite edition. And I acknowledge that presentation was a part of my problem.

 

[Sadrik]

D&D Next Q&A is up with some clarification about fighter maneuvers:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dndqa/20140404

1) Some fighter maneuvers allow you to combine actions that are available to other characters with your attack (e.g. a push combined with an attack). Others maneuvers are unique to the fighter (e.g. "Commander's Strike", which allows an ally to attack in your stead).

2) Some maneuvers require the target to make a save, others just happen.

3) Characters from other classes can use feats to gain access to maneuvers and superiority dice.

Personally, I'm loving this. I'm especially glad that maneuvers don't restrict other characters from attempting fundamental combat options such as push: fighters just do it better.

This clears this up for me. I can accept this strategy for the fighter. I am sure I will have more critiques with the actual publishing and the details of each maneuver in my hand. They will be similar minor things like which save is involved etc.

Ah one thing that I have said in the past is that feats/maneuvers should auto-scale in effectiveness. I think this is being handled by the superiority dice scaling by class level though so that should be ok perhaps.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Into. This.

This is exactly what I was hoping for in 5e taking good ideas from 4e and improving on them. Now I can have my fighter killin' things and taking their stuff in style.

And folks who aren't into having their fighter have limited resources or who want a simple fighter don't need to go there.

....though now I'm wondering about ways to make maneuvers completely at-will....if SD are just spent on damage, maybe we average out that spike over the course of a combat so that my fighter never loses the ability to push or command others, making them truly At-Will abilities....huuuuuuuuurmm.....