Rule-of-Three for May 23

[Upper_Krust]

As an honest question, what's left for Epic after you take out demons or undead?

...Atomic Demons, Demonic Races: Rakshasas, Varunas, Nagas etc.

...Temporal Undead, Umbral Monsters of Annihilation, Vampire Collectives/Intelligences and so on.

I can only think of other immortals (angels and devils), fey and aberrations. Otherwise you need to get 'crazy' and mess around with parallel universes and such, don't you?

Even before you get to that point there is still quite a bit of room to cover...

Modron Hierarchs, Abominations, Apocryphals (Apocalypse Spells), Inevitables, Genies, Forsaken, Weavers, Daemons (reworked to be part of the Shadowfell).

Off the top of my head Epic Fey might include the Varcolac (Vampire-Werewolf Hybrids), Sidhe (Forgotten Gods), Nazca, Zodiacal Beings, Rusalki (Humanoid-Treant Hybrids), Arboreants (Living Forests), Chalk Golems...

...and those Monsters of Legend (like the Jabberwock) collectively given a name that escapes me in the Pathfinder Bestiary 2.

Thats all before you start messing around and inventing new places.

 

[Artoomis]

Humanoids

It seems to be the best epic opponents are ordinary (epic) humanoids. Humans, elves, etc....

They make great bad guys - and the players generally have no idea on their capabilities because they are not standard monsters.

Plus, of of course politics,. etc, etc.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Did someone actually mention Swordwings as an interesting epic foe? I don't think I've ever seen anything so bland and yet so inappropriate! But that might just be me...

Regarding the question about the cleric, I find myself saying 'hell yes'. Within a week of PHB1 coming out I noticed and complained about the wierdness of the clerics fire storm and astral storm, which were strictly better at controller area damage than anything the wizard could get. The changes to cleric were all good from what I've seen, except perhaps the turn undead - which at base level was useful, even though it didn't necessarily make sense for all clerics.

Cheers

 

[Upper_Krust]

Did someone actually mention Swordwings as an interesting epic foe? I don't think I've ever seen anything so bland and yet so inappropriate! But that might just be me...

I think the Swordwing 'idea' has a lot of potential. I've borrowed the basic idea, crossed it a bit with the Thorciasid, spun it on its head and I'm using it (as a small part admittedly) in a 4E Epic Tier adventure module I'm writing called The Serpent Riders.

So while I would agree the Monster Manual Swordwing and Crownwing are by no means that well constructed or interesting, I think the seed of the idea at the heart of it all could be made into something great.

 

[MrMyth]

I think the Swordwing 'idea' has a lot of potential. I've borrowed the basic idea, crossed it a bit with the Thorciasid, spun it on its head and I'm using it (as a small part admittedly) in a 4E Epic Tier adventure module I'm writing called The Serpent Riders.

So while I would agree the Monster Manual Swordwing and Crownwing are by no means that well constructed or interesting, I think the seed of the idea at the heart of it all could be made into something great.

Yeah - I've only used it briefly, but felt it was to good effect. I admittedly had them as beings from outside reality, rather than as simply deep dwellers, but the idea of truly alien bug people who pour forth in endless waves of creatures bred for war and linked by an incomprehensible hive mind - I certainly see room for such a threat in an epic game.