D&D 5E (2014) Rules Discussion: Somatic Components and Restrained

[Ruzak]

I don't know how relevant this is, but you can attack but not cast spells in armor you are not proficient in.

 

[Psikerlord#]

to answer the OP:

restrained does not prevent somatic casting on my reading, if you can attack you can cast a spell, I think your player was correct.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I too would have allowed the player to cast. Perhaps it would make sense for an attack spell to be rolled with disadvantage (or any save to be made with advantage), but I would have allowed the player to cast a spell.

It's a good question though. Would this be different if the caster is in manacles? a completely mundane item, arguably more constraining that the effects of a web spell: are manacles sufficient to prevent somatic components? Possibly so: I note that the knock spell does not need somatic components.

 

[Thaumaturge]

Sorry, Thaum, but I can't affirm you on this one.

What I've learned from this thread:

• Agreement/Disagreement comes in waves
• My ruling wasn't ridiculous, but it was on the tougher side
• I enjoy having an actual rules situation to discuss more than theoretical situations
• Tone matters
• People whose opinion I respect both agree and disagree with my ruling

But really if you can make an attack with a bow or sword, then you can cast spells. Heck you can use a sling!

That's a good point. I've been thinking of a struggling sword fighter. But an longbow or sling user would be able to attack, too. So I'm faced with either increasing layers of house-rules/interpretations to justify the original decision or recant.

I'm still open to further thoughts. Reading everyone's opinions is really helpful for me.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Rod Staffwand]

I'm not happy with 5E's condition list at all, for some of these very reasons.

The conditions themselves are mere bullet points of effects without context and not defined in and of themselves. Restrained is not explained well at all. Obviously my legs are restrained because my speed is 0. But I'm also taking disadvantage to attack rolls...why do I need my legs to shoot my crossbow? Maybe it means my legs are fully restrained and my arms are partially restrained--enough to penalize shooting a crossbow or dodging a fireball, but not enough to penalize me picking a lock or making a stealth check... It becomes even more confusing when it's compared with grappled, which is sort of like restrained but not quite.

Then there's the fact that they don't sync up with the magic system at all. There's not a single condition presented that interferes specifically with spellcasting, other than the conditions that prevent all actions, of course. In my mind, grappled, restrained, prone, frightened, poisoned and exhaustion should have some detrimental effect on spellcasting, or at least concentration. A character with 5 levels of exhaustion (next to death) has disadvantage on ability checks, attack rolls and saving throws; has their hit point maximum halved and their speed reduced to 0; and yet suffers no appreciable penalty to spellcasting or concentration. Hell, stick him on a tenser's floating disc and have him spam fireball until his slots run out and you've got a decent arcane main battle tank.

As for the original OP, and my adhoc solution to most of this, would be to use the Con-check concentration mechanic to cast spells in greatly impaired circumstances. On a failure, you lose your action, but don't expend the spell slot. I don't think completely limiting spellcasting while in a web is beyond the pale, though, especially for a character that escaped falling damage while falling unconscious into it.

 

[the Jester]

A character with 5 levels of exhaustion (next to death) has disadvantage on ability checks, attack rolls and saving throws; has their hit point maximum halved and their speed reduced to 0; and yet suffers no appreciable penalty to spellcasting or concentration.

I agree with your point, but it's worth noting that their actually is a minor penalty- he or she does have disadvantage on the saves he or she might have to make to maintain concentration.

 

[Thaumaturge]

It's a good question though. Would this be different if the caster is in manacles? a completely mundane item, arguably more constraining that the effects of a web spell: are manacles sufficient to prevent somatic components? Possibly so: I note that the knock spell does not need somatic components.

I'm really intrigued by this question. Manacles are easier to wrap our heads around, because they are real things that really restrain people. Manacles "restrain", so, for consistency, should have the same ruling as web. Yet they do seem different.

As for the original OP, and my adhoc solution to most of this, would be to use the Con-check concentration mechanic to cast spells in greatly impaired circumstances. On a failure, you lose your action, but don't expend the spell slot.

If I'd remembered concentration at the time, I might have done this.

Part of the meta-story of this is that my wonderful wife had worked a 16 hour day, but wanted to play the climactic scenes of the adventure. She has previously told me, on numerous occasions, rules discussions put her to sleep. So I made a call without taking the time to look at the puzzle from 15 angles. And I told the group we'd revisit the question.

Thaumaturge.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Another option I would consider is this:

"The DM might also decide that certain environmental
phenomena, such as a wave crashing over you while
you’re on a storm-tossed ship, require you to succeed
on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to maintain
concentration on a spell."

It would be perfectly reasonable to say that a lot of the conditions, even though they don't specify it, require a DC10 Concentration Check. That maybe the best way.

"Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful
gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. "

might include [EDIT: I know the might is referring to it might need S component but the point is the gesturing is up to the group]. If, in your group view, spells are cast with a few words and a flick of the fingers then you can be more lenient on the Concentration Checks. But if you see it as almost dancing, shaman like, then they'll be making them more often. Something to discuss before a game with your players, maybe.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I'm really intrigued by this question. Manacles are easier to wrap our heads around, because they are real things that really restrain people. Manacles "restrain", so, for consistency, should have the same ruling as web. Yet they do seem different.



If I'd remembered concentration at the time, I might have done this.

Part of the meta-story of this is that my wonderful wife had worked a 16 hour day, but wanted to play the climactic scenes of the adventure. She has previously told me, on numerous occasions, rules discussions put her to sleep. So I made a call without taking the time to look at the puzzle from 15 angles. And I told the group we'd revisit the question.

Thaumaturge.

Depends on whether manacles do hands and/or feet, I guess depends on the type.

BOLDED for the beauty of common sense, make a ruling sort it later +1

 

[Kobold Stew]

Depends on whether manacles do hands and/or feet, I guess depends on the type.

Obviously. If you put manacles (as per the equipment list) on a wizard's wrists, can they cast spells with a somatic component.