Rules for a PC running an organization

[Alzrius]

I'm currently running a Pathfinder game, but I'm posting this here since I think what I'm looking for is more likely to be found among v.3.5 supplements.

My characters have recently set up their own fledgling nation in the Kingmaker adventure path. The rogue, who holds the position of the royal spymaster, has expressed a desire to found an intelligence-gathering organization - in his words "the CIA/FBI of the game world."

I'm not opposed to the idea - I think it's pretty cool, actually - but I'm not quite sure how to handle it in terms of mechanics. What supplements would you recommend for organization-building? How would a character found/lead such a group?

 

[AuraSeer]

I've never found a rules system for organizations that works very well. Some of them are just useless. More often, they include gaping rules loopholes that would quickly allow a minmaxer to take over the world.

IMO the best solution is not to involve mechanics in it. After all, as "royal spymaster" he is helping to develop the intelligence service for the kingdom, not for his own personal use. You don't need a mechanic to simulate the wheat harvest or the military training budget, so don't feel obligated to include one for an intelligence service.

As the character puts more time and energy into developing the service (and maybe makes a few Profession rolls), just give feedback about how its increased reach and efficiency is helping the kingdom. Maybe his agents find and execute a spy in the shipyard, and therefore the navy wins an offscreen battle. Or maybe the agents just preempt a neighbor who tried to corner the blueberry market. Mostly, it should be stuff handled by NPCs that the PC doesn't see or even directly manage.

The one way this should directly affect the game, if you like, is through plot hooks. Say that something starts to go really wrong on an operation (like an important agent getting captured), and middle management maynot have forces in place to fix it. The PC and his party could then be the only hope for salvaging it before disaster strikes.

The most important thing to note is that the NPCs should not be following the PC around on adventures, or doing favors for him directly. If he wants that benefit, he needs to take the Leadership feat.

 

[krupintupple]

i believe there's some official rules in the DMG2, somewhere near the middle, for helping PCs flesh out organizations and whatnot. however, it might be something that could easily become a target for a lot of folk who would rather there not be a Justice League of D&D type thing happening.

for instance, liches, dragons, fae, demons, devils, undead, aberrations, drow, rogue's guilds, etc. would all probably rather their doings and goings on remain secret, or at least as private as possible. while it's cool to try to craft a PC-based CIA, some of the afforementioned might not jive with it. just a thought or three, but maybe a niche explorer's guild might be interesting. hate to do this, but the kinda thing that Angel had going on, on his show, except with a larger dedication to reconaissance and less monster-smashy?

 

[Cor_Malek]

Yay! I'm really set to try out Kingmaker, and after reading it's player guide - Spymaster was the position that gained most of my interest. So I'd be happy to chip in into brainstorming this, as I hope to use it one day myself

Well CIA/FBI of game world is a nice idea, and it's great that he has a clear goal. But he has resources of a nation that has like what? 4? 5 Cities? Realistically speaking, Hamas is the best he can do.
And he'd better make an intelligence agency, because other agents are already within borders.

I'd start with him being like "just" a field agent of said agencies. While the PC's travel, he gathers various contacts. To the friendly-indifferent-unfriendly scale, add "contact". To have a character become his contact, he must make a successful diplomacy or intimidate (if justified) check opposing charisma on top of normal modificators for NPC's attitude (so while possible to enlist unfriendly NPC, it's better to make him friendly first). At DM's discretion, payments - one time or monthly - can lower the DC. Successful bluff checks can be used to boost consecutive intimidate roll.
At the time of enlistment, contact route is agreed on, depending largely on the NPC's resources and PC's availability. Send and Animal Messenger seem elegant, but not within everyone's grasp. Some contacts (especially monsters) will have to be visited by the agent. So as the web grows - the organization would change. At first, the PC's would have to visit their agents. When they'll have enough resources, they can hire agents to supervise contacts and pass gathered info to their superior.

One way to do this elegantly within Kingmaker - is to install agents in some types of building. The building type will also limit what kind of intel can be gathered. Buildings from player guide that seem appropriate for various types of information:
- Knowledge (arcana, religion, local: magic community): alchemist, casters tower, exotic craftsman, herbalist, magic shop, temple, cathedral
- Knowledge (local: inhabitants, personalities, traditions, crime): black market, brothel, park and dump (Millennium Hand and Shrimp!), pier, market, tavern
I'm not sure how exactly this works in Kingmaker, but I'm guessing that various buiding provide income. Buildings with installed agent will give less income - to provide payment for our men. Of course, this contact will have to not only gather intel, but also take care of day-to-day business, so if we choose poorly, we might end crippling the front we've used - or with useless agency draining our resources.

First agency set in given city provides +1 Stability for as long as it it operating. If it's taken over by outside elements, it provides -1 stability instead (on top of "normal" activity).


Depending on nature of who he just enlisted, this would provide different intel game-wise. Lowly or plainly stupid characters will provide freebie rumours. Other informations should be provided at DM's discretion, possibly to compliment the quests and events the party is facing. Some of this information will be freely available, because quests will be using our mole. But most of the time, follow this formula:
1. Where the quest is going on, what kind of knowledge you would require from PC?
2. Allow the contact to make a roll: either knowledge(x) or diplomacy if they know someone entangled in the intrigue. If successful - they get whatever information the PC would get
3. Have them contact the PC (or agent responsible) in a way that was established at first, using their intelligence as well (so if PC's don't visit NPC that they have only personal contact with - no gain. But if the news is dire enough, they might go out of their way to pass the info).

On top of that, the agency might employ various specialists. Either on monthly fee (as with henchmen), on event-to-event basis, or employing other contacts. A murder scene with occult elements? Why not call for the cleric that visits our brothel every week, and has high heal and knowledge (religion)? Need to know what the gem we have is worth? Let's meet with our guy on the blackmarket. If they are supposed to be secret agents, using them in such way risks blowing their cover (unless we managed to make it a secret who is pulling the strings of intelligence).

 

[Thanael]

Rules-wise there is of course the PF faction guide, which details several different organizations and the benefits you can reap for affiliating with them.
It does not however have any rules on building an organization.

The PF organized play rules probably also delve into this mechanically. This can give you a template for what benefits the organization will want to provide members & contacts and when/how. The PC as leader has to somehow provide these benefits.