Rules for selling gems?

[Leatherhead]

Haggling for gems kind of breaks down when you start dealing with astral diamonds. It's better to assume the treasure gems are a form of ingot (weighed and stamped by some merchant authority) rather than a work of art or an unrefined chunk of mineral.

 

[eriktheguy]

I wouldn't say it's a no-no, just that it's not explicitly supported by RAW. They made a conscious decision to treat gems just like currency for the sake of convenience. A Haggling system can easily be turned into a variation of a trade skill, which 4E got rid of by default. Adventurers are professional adventurers, it's what they do for a living. However, as DM you can do what you want.

First of all, is this a kind of interaction your players want? I was disappointed every time I found a gem as a player because I knew it meant tedious searching for a buyer and haggling on a price. It wasn't fun to me, but it might be to someone else. Honestly, if the players don't like that kind of thing, I'd just skip it. As DM, you might feel that it's too gamist, but sometimes trying to make everything realistic can bog down a game and make simple things like shopping a real chore.

Make sure you find a solution that's fun for your group, whether it's following RAW or making up your own thing. Having fun is more important than RAW or realism.

And who nows, maybe every emerald in the world just happens to naturally occur at the same value. There's nothing to stop you from even changing up the values of the gems to the normal amount they would get in treasure, but I wouldn't really make them haggle to sell them or get them appraised. Looting and appraising are parts Adventurer's skill set.

I agree that certain players will enjoy haggling. But like your example some can really get bored of the tedious interactions that follow finding a cache of gems. For these systems I incorporate the 'no haggling for gems' rule. Further down my list I noted that special or rare gems could merit haggling etc. These are the things a DM would include if they knew one of the party members like this sort of thing. If you know one of your party members likes puzzles, you include a puzzle in the quest, but you don't make every combat/room a puzzle. If you know one party member likes haggling, you include some haggling encounters by throwing an interesting item into the treasure every now and then, but you don't make this a requirement for every gem. Most gems act as currency, and the exceptions act as encounters, skill challenges, and adventure hooks.

 

[N0Man]

I think what Erik suggested is reasonable, if you have a player who wants that.

However, just beware of the common DM mistake of houseruling elements that you don't like as a DM because they don't feel right to you, and as a consequence increasing tedium and decreasing fun in your game.

I've seen way too many DM's try to add simulationist rules that really were frustrating and not fun at all, but had to be suffered through for the sake of the rest of the game and the DM's ego.

 

[Nail]

... just beware of the common DM mistake of houseruling elements that you don't like as a DM because they don't feel right to you, and as a consequence increasing tedium and decreasing fun in your game.

Truth.

FWIW, I wish players were a bit more forth-coming about what house-rules they think increase tedium. Give the DM a (polite) heads-up, maybe via private email.

 

[77IM]

I impose gold-piece limits on most merchants, so the small village merchant won't buy the expensive gems. For example, the party recently found an astral diamond, at 10th level. But no one in the town will buy it from them, and it will be several levels before they find any place where they can cash it in for full value. Besides, gold pieces hardly matter anyway -- it's ritual component scarcity and magic item availability that regulates the PC economy.

-- 77IM

 

[N0Man]

I impose gold-piece limits on most merchants, so the small village merchant won't buy the expensive gems. For example, the party recently found an astral diamond, at 10th level. But no one in the town will buy it from them, and it will be several levels before they find any place where they can cash it in for full value. Besides, gold pieces hardly matter anyway -- it's ritual component scarcity and magic item availability that regulates the PC economy.

There are 2 comments I'd like to make on this.

First of all, this is the kind of thing I was warning about. If your players feel that this adds something to the game, and they like this, then great, keep it up. However, this is something that could very easily become tedious and frustrating to players. Treasure that they can't spend isn't really treasure. But again, this is something that seriously should be decided as a group, as it really is a houserule and could potentially have serious impact on fun.

Secondly, in 4E, your usage of gems isn't really as intended. When a gem is worth 100 gold, that shouldn't mean that the players should have to cash it in for gold first, and gold is the actual currency. I believe what is intended is that you to treat that gem as equivalent of 100 gold in currency. Maybe that's what you are doing, and I misunderstand, and you are only referring to the village's ability to make change.

If that's the case, I'd like to refer you to the earlier comment that treasure that the party can't spend isn't really treasure. If it's going to be 2 levels before they can actually buy anything with the diamond (either directly or by converting it for gold), then it shouldn't really count as their treasure they've acquired yet, IMHO.

 

[77IM]

I agree that treasure that can't be used isn't really treasure. The astral diamond is more of a hook -- it didn't count against their treasure for the dungeon where they found it (which was like an 8th-level dungeon, AD is way off the charts). Instead, it will be a reward for them finding a place where they can cash it in (a journey which may involve a lot of hostile territory); it's an implicit quest to get them away from the podunk village where the campaign started.

-- 77IM

 

[eriktheguy]

I agree that treasure that can't be used isn't really treasure. The astral diamond is more of a hook -- it didn't count against their treasure for the dungeon where they found it (which was like an 8th-level dungeon, AD is way off the charts). Instead, it will be a reward for them finding a place where they can cash it in (a journey which may involve a lot of hostile territory); it's an implicit quest to get them away from the podunk village where the campaign started.

-- 77IM

That's actually a really well used item, and of course you were right not to cost it against their treasure. Give them a trillion dollar bill and watch them squirm when no one has change.

 

[N0Man]

Ok, well that isn't so bad then. So if I understand you correctly, you've effectively given them a treasure parcel as a quest reward for a quest they haven't done yet, but can't spend until they've done the quest. ;-)

What if they decide they really want something before then and buy something that is worth a fraction of what the Diamond is worth and eat the loss?

I like the general idea though. I think I could see myself doing a variation of that with a valuable art object of a very specific style. With some research, they might find out that some very wealth man is a collector of such an item.

 

[77IM]

What if they decide they really want something before then and buy something that is worth a fraction of what the Diamond is worth and eat the loss?

That's their choice. Far be it from me to prevent the players from screwing themselves over. ;} In fact, if I offered them 7,500 residuum for the AD, they might take it, since they have basically exhausted the local reagent market.

I think I could see myself doing a variation of that with a valuable art object of a very specific style. With some research, they might find out that some very wealth man is a collector of such an item.

I've done that too! It's a great way to simplify the "haggling"/"selling" process into something easy for players to grasp and quick to resolve. It's quick because you either manage to find a specific buyer and get the good price, or you don't and get the market price -- there's no temptation to keep making Diplomacy checks in an attempt to eke out that extra 5% profit.

-- 77IM