Rules of the Game: Making Magic Items

[Trainz]

There has been some discussion about that 7 part article, but I feel that we could have discussed it much more, given that it pertains to a very important but quirky aspect of the game.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a

The one thing that has got me thinking is the following:

One item people frequently ask me about is a ring of true strike. The spell provides a whopping +20 insight bonus on attack rolls and negates miss chances arising from concealed targets. It's only 1st level, however, because it is a personal range spell with a duration of 1 round. That means you can normally manage one attack every 2 rounds when using the spell. Also, you can't bestow it on an ally (except for a familiar or animal companion) because of its personal range.

Assuming such a ring worked whenever it was needed and has a caster level of 1st, it would cost a mere 2,000 gp by the formula for a use-activated spell effect (in this case, 1 x 1 x 2,000 gp). Sharp-eyed readers will note that any continuously functioning item has a cost adjustment of x4 (see the footnotes to Table 7-33), which bumps up the ring's cost to 8,000 gp. That's a real bargain for an item that provides so much boost to a user's combat power. Much too great a bargain.

So, what would our example ring of true strike be worth? Insight bonuses aren't included on Table 7-33, but a weapon bonus has a cost equal to the bonus squared x 2,000 gp, so a +20 weapon would cost 800,000 gp. One can argue that the ring isn't quite as good as a +20 weapon because it doesn't provide a damage bonus. That, however, ignores the very potent ability to negate most miss chances. Also, the ring's insight bonus works with any sort of attack the wearer makes. On top of all that, the insight bonus stacks with any enhancement bonus from a magic weapon the wearer might wield. Still, 800,000 gp is a lot of cash and the lack of a damage bonus is significant, so some price reduction is in order. A 50% reduction might be in order, or 400,000 gp for the ring.

Would you pay 400,000 gp for a ring of true striking? I would if I could afford it. At a price of 400,000 gp, our mythical ring of true strike is something only an epic-level character could afford. That's fine, because epic play is where the ring belongs.

His analysis might look correct, but I feel it fails.

Given that almost ALL epic fighters have the Power Attack feat, a +20 to hit also translates into a +10 to hit AND damage (actually a +10 to hit and +20 to damage for two-handers), up to your total BAB of course.

That's a +10 on both for ANYTHING you fight with, not just that single epic sword you bought.

A +20 epic sword is worth 8 million gold pieces, not just 800,000 gp. For the sake of analysis, lets compare it with a +10 epic sword, which is worth 2 million gold pieces.

Now let's compare the two:

+10 epic sword: that's a static +10 to hit and damage, but the +10 damage can't really be converted on to hit, or be made into double damage if that's a two handed sword. The +10 to hit part can. It doesn't help you with you dagger, or with your spare halberd. Or when fighting unarmed. It does allow you to bypass epic DR.

Ring of true strike: That's a +20 to hit that you can shift into +19 to hit/+1 damage or up to +1 to hit/+19 damage (or +38 damage), again up to your total BAB. It affects all your melee AND missile attacks. It helps casters with range touch attacks and such. Negate most miss chances. It does not allow you to bypass DR.

Given this, I'd at least price it at 2 million gp, because the DR bypassing might balance with the "applicable to all attacks" part.

What do you think ?

What other aspects of magic items creation did the articles made you consider ?

 

[Diirk]

I posted this in some other thread a while back but he severely underpriced that ring... he argues that a bonus to hit should use a weapons pricing (bonus squared x 2000), then half that because weapons give both +to hit and +damage.. so for simply a bonus to hit, it would be bonus squared x 1000.

While I agree with this, where I feel he went wrong is the vast difference between an insight bonus and an enhancement bonus. Compare the cost between an AC bonus - enhancement (bonus squared x 1000) and an AC bonus - other (bonus squared x 2500). As the direct complement of an AC bonus, the pricing for a +to hit item should be the same. So a +20 insight bonus to attack item would be 20 * 20 * 2500 = 1 million gp.

Of course, that ignores the other functions of truestrike (ignore concealment etc) and also ignores epic pricing rules, which I'm not too well versed in.

 

[Sithobi1]

Just use the rules for use-activated and add a 1 million broken multiplier, plus a smack upside the head.

 

[Trainz]

I posted this in some other thread a while back but he severely underpriced that ring... he argues that a bonus to hit should use a weapons pricing (bonus squared x 2000), then half that because weapons give both +to hit and +damage.. so for simply a bonus to hit, it would be bonus squared x 1000.

While I agree with this, where I feel he went wrong is the vast difference between an insight bonus and an enhancement bonus. Compare the cost between an AC bonus - enhancement (bonus squared x 1000) and an AC bonus - other (bonus squared x 2500).

You have an excellent point. A complimentary bonus should cost more. Your formula is wrong though... it's not x2500, but x2000. Ring +5: 5x5x2000=50000.

Thus, a ring that enhances your to-hit by, say, +5 (to remain in the non-epic scale), should be bonus squared x 4000 (twice as much as a weapon's bonus), but since we don't have the bonus on damage rolls, let's halve it, or bonus squared x 2000, or in the case of a ring +5 to hit 50000.

For your information, the formula for epic items (bonuses +6 or more) is the same, except that you multiply AGAIN by 10. This works for ALL epic items, be it bracers of armor, cloaks of resistence, armors, swords, whatever.

A plusheight longsword is 8x8x2000x10 or 1,280,000 gp.

By the same token, the infamous +20 to hit ring would cost 20x20x2000x10 or...

... 8 million friggin' gold pieces.

Yup, that's more like it. Worth it, but not attainable until you're level 35-40 or more.

It's interesting to note that a ring that does +10 to hit AND damage would cost much less:

10x10x4000x10: 4 million gold pieces.

 

[Trainz]

Just use the rules for use-activated and add a 1 million broken multiplier, plus a smack upside the head.

ROFL !

Yeah... that would work also.

 

[Trainz]

Another thing...

Is it just me, or is a ring of AC +5 more useful than an amulet of natural armor +5 ?

The ring is ALWAYS in your AC whatever the circumstances, but the amulet doesn't work against touch attacks and incorporeal attacks.

The amulet should cost less, or the ring more, or something...

 

[Sithobi1]

There are more effects available in ring slots, though, and amulet slots aren't in nearly as high demand. There is actually a slotless "armor" that makes more sense for this kind of thing-It is in bastion press's arms and armor, called subdermal armor. It is a potion that gives you varying amounts of natural armor bonus permanently.

 

[Diirk]

You have an excellent point. A complimentary bonus should cost more. Your formula is wrong though... it's not x2500, but x2000. Ring +5: 5x5x2000=50000.

Nonono, you don't quite get where I'm coming from. An enhancement bonus to ac is x1000. Likewise an enhancement bonus to hit is x1000 (This fits with +x weapon.. its x1000 to hit + x1000 to damage = x2000 total).

A deflection bonus to ac is x2000. There's no such thing as a deflection bonus to hit tho

Any other bonus to ac is x2500. Therefore the same bonuses to hit (insight, luck etc) should all also be x2500. An insight bonus to hit should be x2500, not x2000.

Imo, anyway

 

[Mekabar]

Buy a couple of wands of truke striking for a mere 750 gp each. Just make sure you have an arcane spellcasting class or enough UMD.

 

[Diirk]

While thats alot cheaper in terms of gold, its alot more expensive in terms of time... And actions are by far the most precious things in combat