[Rules Question] Misdirected Mark

[Andrew D. Gable]

Last night we were (finally) creating at least some of our characters for our 4e campaign: so far we have an eladrin swordmage, a gnome bard, and a dragonborn warden. Another player will likely be a ranger, and another likely some sort of dragonborn defender-class. So yeah, we've got a lot of defenders.

When the bard was being created, we weren't too clear on how the "misdirected mark" ability works. It's not really clear: does the ally marking the enemy need to be a class that could mark anyway? I take it so, the way the power is described. My understanding is that the ally lays the mark as described in the "hit" section, but that the mark is thereafter treated as if it was the bard who cast it. How would this power work if the ally's class couldn't mark?

Likewise, if my understanding is correct, how would this work with something like the "aegis of assault"? Does the bard get to teleport to the enemy as in the description of that power?

 

[Mort_Q]

Marked is a condition that can be applied to creatures. To mark a creature you can use various class features and/or powers (and some items, iirc).

Certain classes/powers may allow other benefits on top of the marked condition.

In this case, Misdirected Mark merely allows the Bard to have a willing Ally within range be the Marker for a Marked Creature.

When a creature marks a target, that target takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include the creature as a target. A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time, and a new mark supersedes an old one.

So if the Bard used MM, and made the Swordmage the marker, the Marked creature would take a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that didn't include the Swordmage. The Swordmage, not the Bard, has the creature marked... whether this would allow the swordmage to teleport is ... debatable.

Debate!

Finally got through to D&DI... the AoA is a specific kind of mark, and this mark does not trigger it.

If you mark other creatures using other powers, the target is still marked.

 

[Obryn]

It's just a mark; the Bard can make the party's Wizard mark the enemy, if need be.

As for a mark's effects, it's always a -2 for the mark-ee to attack anyone but the mark-er. This happens regardless of the marker's class. (For another example, the Cleric's Healing Strike power marks a foe.)

Neither a swordmage Aegis nor a Paladin's Divine Challenge/Sanction will be applied just because an enemy is marked by them. They need to specifically use these powers to gain their benefits; check the wording of the Aegis.

On the other hand, Fighter and Warden features specifically relate to marked enemies, regardless of how they've been marked. So a Bard synergizes well with these two, and not so well with Paladins and Swordmages.

-O

 

[Amaroq]

Yeah, we've been playing at as described above. With the Sorcerer in melee trouble, our Bard used Misdirected Mark to have the Ranger mark the troublesome lurker .. perfectly legitimate by the rules, its just not as buff a mark as it would have been to misdirect the mark to a fighter.

Since the party consists of Paladin, Bard, Ranger, Sorcerer, I've been toying with what to do with the Paladin's Divine Challenge and this sort of situation ..

 

[Andrew D. Gable]

OK, that's kind of what we wondering, if there was a "generic" mark, and sounds like there is. OTOH, going back to the swordmage, if he used his aegis against the same enemy, it would still cancel out the bard's mark, right?

 

[Mort_Q]

... back to the swordmage, if he used his aegis against the same enemy, it would still cancel out the bard's mark, right?

Correct. A creature can only be the subject of one mark, and new mark supersedes the old one.

 

[Obryn]

OK, that's kind of what we wondering, if there was a "generic" mark, and sounds like there is. OTOH, going back to the swordmage, if he used his aegis against the same enemy, it would still cancel out the bard's mark, right?

Yep. Marks are exclusive; his new mark from the Aegis would replace his old mark from the Bard.

-O

 

[Obryn]

OK, that's kind of what we wondering, if there was a "generic" mark, and sounds like there is. OTOH, going back to the swordmage, if he used his aegis against the same enemy, it would still cancel out the bard's mark, right?

Yep. Marks are exclusive; his new mark from the Aegis would replace his old mark from the Bard.

-O

 

[DracoSuave]

The easiest way to grok Paladin and Swordmage marking powers...

It's not 'The Paladin's Mark'. It's a power that marks, and does some other stuff. In the case of Paladins and Swordmages, its that other stuff that gives the defendery++ to the mark, whereas Battleminds, Fighters, and Wardens have other more general powers that do that.

And marking to the party wizard might -seem- bad, but if the wizard cannot be attacked, that's -2 to the enemy's attacks, period. That's not bad at all.

 

[Amaroq]

The easiest way to grok Paladin and Swordmage marking powers...

It's not 'The Paladin's Mark'. It's a power that marks, and does some other stuff. In the case of Paladins and Swordmages, its that other stuff that gives the defendery++ to the mark, whereas Battleminds, Fighters, and Wardens have other more general powers that do that.

DracoSuave, that's the best, simple explanation of that that I've heard: I'm going to repeat it verbatim to my players on Saturday.

Thanks a ton!