Rules - Tiefling Balance

Seeten

First Post
Rules - Tiefling Balance

Hey guys:

I've decided to bring my love/hate relationship to Tieflings to a whole new level. This is a Tiefling hate thread. I HATE the current rules balancing of Tiefling. I am going to outline why, and demonstrate how I would fix it.

I believe the class is terrible both as a roleplayer, and as a powergamer. +1 LA races are notably bad as spellcasters, simply due to their LA, so they make poor wizards right off the start. Their stat mods are best for wizards, of course, save that any +0 LA race is a better wizard. Next up, we move to their favored class, rogue. Dex and Int are great for rogues, but unfortunately, a rogue has as many cha abilities as dex abilities, and we get stuffed on cha, so realistically, a good third of your abilities/skills start out gimped. None of the other +1 LA races suffers from penalties to the few classes they are expected to excel at. Further, from a Flavor perspective, we see multiple demons, almost all with a charisma bonus. Forceful personalities, of course, abound in both the upper and lower planes. Not so with Tieflings. Muted beings and weak personality, apparently. No lust, no fire, no passion. Succubi and Incubi are the most likely demons to mate with humans, and have a +6 cha mod, but worry not about flavor making sense, Tieflings have a -2 cha.

So what are we left with? A race that makes a bad wizard, a bad bard, a passable but not great rogue, and little else. I would, in fact, state that it makes a worse wizard than a human, and a worse rogue than a human. All for a +1 LA.

How would I fix the Tiefling? I can think of a few ways. But I think what I'd do is give them +2 int and +2 cha. Just like the Aasimar, they get 2 good and no bad mods. Both mods help their favored class, and neither is in a "fighting stat", to unbalance it further.(Not that I believe str or dex should be weighted more or less than a non-fighting stat, but anyway). Now you have a Tiefling capable of making a Rogue better than a human, which I think is just fair. It also makes the Tiefling far closer an analogue to the Aasimar, rather than its weak step-child.

Lets look at the proposed changes, in total:

Tiefling(new and improved)
* +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma.
* Medium size.
* A tiefling’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Racial Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks.
* Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels.
* Special Attacks (see above): Darkness.
* Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5.
* Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc.
* Favored Class: Rogue.
* Level adjustment +1.

Aasimar(same as ever)
* +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma.
* Medium size.
* An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
* Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks.
* Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels.
* Special Attacks (see above): Daylight.
* Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5.
* Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Sylvan.
* Favored Class: Paladin.
* Level adjustment +1.

Doesn't that look more fair.

This would step Tieflings into the low end tier of LA +1 races at least.
 

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I've made various modifications I don't recall to the aasimar and tiefling, but the main change is that they're both templates IMC. This means that you can have, e.g., a bonus feat and skill points on top of the standard benefits.

For the tiefling, I think I changed the stat mods from +2/+2/-2 to +2 in any single stat (player's choice).
 

Downside to that is, Tieflings are not mechnically better than Aasimar, so giving Aasimar 2 +2's and Tieflings 1 seems like favoritism.

I dont dislike the idea of templates, though.
 

Seeten said:
Downside to that is, Tieflings are not mechnically better than Aasimar, so giving Aasimar 2 +2's and Tieflings 1 seems like favoritism.

I dont dislike the idea of templates, though.

First of all, you don't know (as far as I can see) what other changes I made to the aasimar and tiefling. Second, getting +2 to two fairly weak stats isn't automatically better than getting +2 on the stat of your choice.

Empirically, I've had 2 players make characters with my new tiefling but only one with the new aasimar (1 character each), so there's no evidence from my campaign that the tiefling, as modified, is any worse.

I think templates make the aasimar and tiefling more interesting, apart from any mechanical gain.
 

I agree. I always thought it odd that half-fiend and half-celestial are templates but planetouched is not.

I like the idea of an Aasimar Gnome or Tiefling Elf, for example. Seeten and CRGreathouse can both consider their ideas yoinked, as I will write up a Planteouched template that puts Aasimar and Tieflings on an equal footing. :)
 


CRGreathouse said:
First of all, you don't know (as far as I can see) what other changes I made to the aasimar and tiefling. Second, getting +2 to two fairly weak stats isn't automatically better than getting +2 on the stat of your choice.

Empirically, I've had 2 players make characters with my new tiefling but only one with the new aasimar (1 character each), so there's no evidence from my campaign that the tiefling, as modified, is any worse.

I think templates make the aasimar and tiefling more interesting, apart from any mechanical gain.

Its true, I dont, and I like the idea of the templates, also. Its not a bad idea. If you add human traits to Tiefling traits, its REALLY worth the +1 LA.

I'd go with +int and +cha to the tiefling, though for a template personally. Also, I dont consider wis and cha weak ability scores, but to each their own, for sure.
 



When I was starting a new campaign a few years ago, I was re-reading all the races and classes and making little adjustments here and there. For the tiefling, I read through all the currently existing fiend material I could find and made a master list of all the traits and abilities I could think of that might be passed on, parent-to-child style, and gave each a bit of a rating. Then I made up a master list and said to my players, in effect, that if you choose a tiefling, you'll have to customize your tiefling, based on the heritage you're wanting to have, and these are your options.

I like flexibility, I like flavor, and I think it's been better for tieflings in my campaign ever since. Also, it means that my NPC tieflings aren't all carbon copies of one another, and I think that's precisely what we want out of them.

Dave
 

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