D&D 5E Ruling Rope Trick

[Hexmage-EN]

New spell ruling questions, this time about Rope Trick:

• Is the portal that is generated intangible so that creatures and objects could move through its space?
• If cast while on or in a moving object, like a vehicle, will the portal stay in place or move along with the object?

I ask because a friend of mine once mused that, depending on how you rule it, Rope Trick could hypothetically be used for covert entry of vehicles. For example, set the portal at the elevation where you expect the interior of a carriage to be within the hour to drop in, or if on one ship being pursued by another ship cast the spell in the hold, climb in, and wait for the portal to be situated inside the other ship's hold before quickly dropping out. However, this would effectively mean it would be impossible to use Rope Trick to take a Short Rest inside something that is moving, such as a ship or something more fantastical like a flying fortress.

 

[Lanefan]

It is not made of anything; that is the edge of possible space in that miniature dimension. You don't "fall through the floor" as there is nowhere for three-dimensional matter to go beyond that.

Sorry, but my physics-based mind isn't squaring with this.

You're either standing on something, or you're standing on nothing; and if you're standing on nothing you're not standing but floating, meaning gravity can pull you "down" through the "floor". If you walk into the wall of a rope trick's dimension you either bonk your nose on something solid or you keep going...maybe to come out the other wall behind yourself, I don't know; but if that were the case anyone in there would constantly fall through the floor and appear at the ceiling to repeat the process.

Put another way: you can't have it both ways. Either the border is solid (meaning it can theoretically be cut through) or it isn't (meaning there's in fact nothing holding you in there should you decide to leave without using the exit hole).

You do raise an interesting question about gravity. I would say the caster can set the gravity orientation within the space when the spell is cast.

Could be. I suspect the unspoken default it that it matches the gravity just outside the opening, but that it's unspoken raises all kinds of possibilities.

 

[Stormonu]

Sorry, but my physics-based mind isn't squaring with this.

You're either standing on something, or you're standing on nothing; and if you're standing on nothing you're not standing but floating, meaning gravity can pull you "down" through the "floor". If you walk into the wall of a rope trick's dimension you either bonk your nose on something solid or you keep going...maybe to come out the other wall behind yourself, I don't know; but if that were the case anyone in there would constantly fall through the floor and appear at the ceiling to repeat the process.

Put another way: you can't have it both ways. Either the border is solid (meaning it can theoretically be cut through) or it isn't (meaning there's in fact nothing holding you in there should you decide to leave without using the exit hole).

Could be. I suspect the unspoken default it that it matches the gravity just outside the opening, but that it's unspoken raises all kinds of possibilities.

Well, it could be an "edge of the universe" state - you can't go past it because it doesn't exist. Can't cut through it because there isn't another side - it just ends at the edges of the extradimensional space.

I'm not sure which way I fall on the move/not move for these spells, but the more I think about, the more I lean towards moving with the object. Perhaps whether it does so depends on the intent of the caster. If they believe it should move with the object, it does. Otherwise, it doesn't. Could be a size thing - plop it atop a wagon, it won't go anywhere, plop it down in a floating giant's castle and it will move along due to accumulated ley magic from the item's (in this case cloud-castle) bulk. But then you have to figure out how big is "big enough".

 

[Oofta]

Absolutely yes! And as wall of force can't appear in a solid object anyway, you'd be casting it above the deck or in front of/behind/etc. the ship. We recently used this tactic in a naval combat - walls of force right in front of large fast-moving ships cause all sorts of chaos!

Not familiar with guardian of faith - once it appears, does it just work like a normal statue or is there something magical holding it in place? If the former, then it moves wherever the ship carries it. If the latter, well, probably not the best idea of the day.

Easier perhaps, but also way less fun.

You can cast a wall of force either free floating (I last used that on a diving dragon) or on a solid surface. If it's on a solid surface I rule that it it moves with that surface. Free floating? Then it could cause a ship to crash.

The spirit guardian appears in an unoccupied space but does not move. I'm just trying to be consistent in a way that makes sense more often than not.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Sorry, but my physics-based mind isn't squaring with this.

You're either standing on something, or you're standing on nothing; and if you're standing on nothing you're not standing but floating, meaning gravity can pull you "down" through the "floor". If you walk into the wall of a rope trick's dimension you either bonk your nose on something solid or you keep going...maybe to come out the other wall behind yourself, I don't know; but if that were the case anyone in there would constantly fall through the floor and appear at the ceiling to repeat the process.

Put another way: you can't have it both ways. Either the border is solid (meaning it can theoretically be cut through) or it isn't (meaning there's in fact nothing holding you in there should you decide to leave without using the exit hole).

Could be. I suspect the unspoken default it that it matches the gravity just outside the opening, but that it's unspoken raises all kinds of possibilities.

The sword has nothing to cut through as it is the edge of the particular universe of the spell. There is nowhere to go, as space does not exist beyond that point. It is solid, not because of a barrier, but because "through" is non-sensical. The portal is the only exit to this very small region of curved space-time.

I would agree that the portal determines gravity's orientation to the "floor" of the spell. You stand on the "floor" because that's the way gravity pulls you, and you can go no farther in the pocket universe than that point.

 

[Lanefan]

The sword has nothing to cut through as it is the edge of the particular universe of the spell.

Ah, there's the disconnect. In my view the universe - of which there is and can be only one, hence the "uni" in there - is by definition infinite and thus cannot in and of itself have edges.

I should probably note here that I don't subscribe to any "multiverse" theories and generally hold a very low opinion of such; there's only one universe, and all the planes etc. are merely connected subsets of that universe - walk off the edge of one plane and you'll be either in free non-planar space or on another plane. Which means, if the rope trick generates its own little plane (which is fine) then to keep you inside there has to be something solid doing so.

I would agree that the portal determines gravity's orientation to the "floor" of the spell. You stand on the "floor" because that's the way gravity pulls you, and you can go no farther in the pocket universe than that point.

Which has interesting implications if the rope is pulled in and the portal is closed, removing that frame of reference...

 

[Baron Opal II]

Ah, there's the disconnect. In my view the universe - of which there is and can be only one, hence the "uni" in there - is by definition infinite and thus cannot in and of itself have edges.

Would you believe a pouch of curved space-time?

As to making its own plane, do you think that piercing the wall of the rope trick would / should empty the contents on to the prime? Or is a different plane more likely to you?

Which has interesting implications if the rope is pulled in and the portal is closed, removing that frame of reference...

I strongly recommend leaving the rope trick before the spell ends, especially if the portal is closed!

 

[Lanefan]

Would you believe a pouch of curved space-time?

As to making its own plane, do you think that piercing the wall of the rope trick would / should empty the contents on to the prime? Or is a different plane more likely to you?

Or into someone else's rope trick plane - that'd be the most fun! Imagine - there's a plane somewhere that's full of nothing but little pocket-planes created by everyone's rope tricks and similar spells/effects.

Maybe it's adjacent to - or even a part of - bag world, i.e. the inside of everyone's bags of holding and portable holes.

I strongly recommend leaving the rope trick before the spell ends, especially if the portal is closed!

True!

I was thinking more of what closing the portal and thus shutting off the gravitational frame of reference would do to gravity inside the rope trick while the spell was still in effect.

 

[Maxperson]

It's made of something, though - you can stand on it, lean against the walls, etc. Otherwise it wouldn't be limited to 10x10 feet; you could free-float forever.

It would have a physical barrier, but that barrier is planar in nature. You'd have to be able to rip dimensions between the one you are in and the dimension "outside."

 

[Maxperson]

Not necessarily saying it'd be the Prime you cut through to...but what solid material is that border made of, that you can stand on it etc. (and while we're at it, why/how does gravity work in there?)

It doesn't have to be solid. It just doesn't go any further. Kinda like force, but not really.

 

[Maxperson]

It is not made of anything; that is the edge of possible space in that miniature dimension. You don't "fall through the floor" as there is nowhere for three-dimensional matter to go beyond that.

You do raise an interesting question about gravity. I would say the caster can set the gravity orientation within the space when the spell is cast.

I would think it just automatically orients down as towards the exit, so that when you climb down the rope you are not sideways when exiting or face down as you climb up and then suddenly orient down.