Runepriests

[Incenjucar]

Part of it may be the instinct to fill out the grid, especially since runepriests have a unique mechanic that could apply to many different roles. A build that boosts an ally that flanks an enemy rather than adjacent allies (fewer allies boosted, but pro-CA), for example, or ranged build that granted bonuses to allies adjacent to a struck enemy (replacing the guaranteed close benefit with a conditional ranged benefit). There are also plenty of other themes that would work very well with a runepriest... runes of corruption or shadow runes or runes of creation or runes of unmaking. There's a lot of room to build the concept out. Personally I can see a more daoist-like runepriest whose powers come at the tip of a brush rather than the edge of a dagger or the smack of a hammer.

 

[Marshall]

How many do you really need? Between beast powers and other ranger options, it feels pretty robust to me. Admittedly, my play experience with a beastmaster ranger was short, but I didn't exactly struggle for options.

Its the 'other Ranger powers' part that doesnt add up. What part of 2wf and archery powers makes you a better beastmaster?

Again, how many do you really need? The power options enhance other things that the Runepriest currently lacks support for (such as leader role and melee specialization and healing).

At the expense of being a Runepriest...then you do have a Cleric with some odd buffs. To keep the distinction of the build, there would need to be 'Cleric' powers that build on Runepriest features. At that point why arent you just making another class?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Its the 'other Ranger powers' part that doesnt add up. What part of 2wf and archery powers makes you a better beastmaster?

Well, TWF powers come in quite handy, if you want to delve into it, since they synch up with your ability scores and melee-range focus and Striker role quite nicely. Those also give you broader equipment and feat selection, without hurting your ability to use Synchronized Strike even a little bit.

But the implication seems to be that cleric powers won't make you a better runepriest?

Well, they do, in the same way TWF helps you be a better beastmaster.

I get that it doesn't key directly into the specific schtick of the build, and I'm not saying there's not room to add support. Clearly, horsemasters and monkeymasters could use some support too!

But you don't see people decrying the lack of horsemaster support as the reason that people don't play horsemasters.

Because the few people that <3 horsemasters can make use of a broad existing pool of abilities that are already there that might not be directly related to horsemastery, but can enhance what they do anyway.

If runepriests were a cleric build instead of their own class, that the support need might be a bit less urgent, or less pointed. In the same way that no one's been clamoring for the necessary support for beastmaster rangers who happen to choose "serpent" as their companion, since those beastmaster rangers do have other options that play to their strengths that they can choose from the bigger pool of Ranger abilities. A runepriest could still make use of some specific build-support, but it might not be as vital, as urgent, or as necessary, since they could then choose from the bigger pool of Cleric abilities (think of them picking up Warpriest or Str-based cleric powers, forex...).

At the expense of being a Runepriest...then you do have a Cleric with some odd buffs. To keep the distinction of the build, there would need to be 'Cleric' powers that build on Runepriest features. At that point why arent you just making another class?

I don't see it as "at the expense of" anything. A runepriest that picks up Levy of Judgement can still use Rune of Binding, without any penalties or problems. A runepriest who wanted to take ONLY rune powers could still take ONLY rune powers. Only now, they could ALSO take MORE powers, that could help them a lot, even if they weren't rune powers, even if they needed a little re-fluffing.

Again, that's not to say that even a runepriest build couldn't use a Dragon article with some better feat options more appropriate to its schtick or something.

But that IS to say that if runepriests were a build instead of a class, they'd already be much better off than monkeymaster rangers, and you don't see people decrying the lack of support for monkeymasters, since WotC (cleverly) didn't make the monkeymaster into a unique class with 100 powers of its own.

tl;dr version: why does your runepriest need more support than my monkey? Cuz it's a class instead of a build.

 

[Marshall]

Well, TWF powers come in quite handy, if you want to delve into it, since they synch up with your ability scores and melee-range focus and Striker role quite nicely. Those also give you broader equipment and feat selection, without hurting your ability to use Synchronized Strike even a little bit.

But the implication seems to be that cleric powers won't make you a better runepriest?

Well, they do, in the same way TWF helps you be a better beastmaster.

No, they dont. TWF powers make you a better TWF ranger. You've completely neglected your monkey EVERY time you use a TWF power. You're still a TWF ranger even tho you took "Beastmaster" as your build. Thats the difference between a build and a class.

I get that it doesn't key directly into the specific schtick of the build, and I'm not saying there's not room to add support. Clearly, horsemasters and monkeymasters could use some support too!

But you don't see people decrying the lack of horsemaster support as the reason that people don't play horsemasters.

I think its more likely that NO ONE plays Horsemasters. I've seen exactly two beastmasters in play neither was a Horsemaster(or a monkeymaster) and one was an Archer with a meatshield. While anecdotal evidence isnt worth much, I'd wager that the number of Beastmaster builds in the OCB is significantly less than the number of Runepriests. Even worse, many of those that do exist are likely nothing more than meatshield builds.

Because the few people that <3 horsemasters can make use of a broad existing pool of abilities that are already there that might not be directly related to horsemastery, but can enhance what they do anyway.

If runepriests were a cleric build instead of their own class, that the support need might be a bit less urgent, or less pointed. In the same way that no one's been clamoring for the necessary support for beastmaster rangers who happen to choose "serpent" as their companion, since those beastmaster rangers do have other options that play to their strengths that they can choose from the bigger pool of Ranger abilities. A runepriest could still make use of some specific build-support, but it might not be as vital, as urgent, or as necessary, since they could then choose from the bigger pool of Cleric abilities (think of them picking up Warpriest or Str-based cleric powers, forex...).

Less urgent and pointed...just like the need for STR-Cleric support...thats been going on since PHB1. All that does is leave the same excuse to not support the build..."you can always use the half-measures"

I don't see it as "at the expense of" anything. A runepriest that picks up Levy of Judgement can still use Rune of Binding, without any penalties or problems. A runepriest who wanted to take ONLY rune powers could still take ONLY rune powers. Only now, they could ALSO take MORE powers, that could help them a lot, even if they weren't rune powers, even if they needed a little re-fluffing.

And we're back to where we started...The way 4e is designed, a powers class and stats are ALL fluff. Why is it so hard to go thru the Warlord, Cleric, Bard or Artificer power lists, refluff some riders and put out some solid support for a class.

Again, that's not to say that even a runepriest build couldn't use a Dragon article with some better feat options more appropriate to its schtick or something.

Agreed.

But that IS to say that if runepriests were a build instead of a class, they'd already be much better off than monkeymaster rangers, and you don't see people decrying the lack of support for monkeymasters, since WotC (cleverly) didn't make the monkeymaster into a unique class with 100 powers of its own.

tl;dr version: why does your runepriest need more support than my monkey? Cuz it's a class instead of a build.

Cause its a class, it deserves more support. Monkeys probably do too, but since you're the only one asking for it.....

 

[Camelot]

I like runepriests. They can do things that no other class can, both mechanically and flavorfully. I have an idea for a runepriest that doesn't worship the gods, but thinks he can do better than them, so he uses runes as a tool to usurp their power. You can't do that with a cleric or any other divine class; Channel Divinity pretty much necessitates worship.