Runestaff via UMD?

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Thanks for the quick response. I have to say now, though, that this will be my last for this evening, as it's late here. Very late.

No problem - enjoy bed!

I must have missed the bit where being able to use a runestaff through UMD gives you unlimited spells. If I emulate the class ability of a wizard to cast a 4th level spell - and then I use that emulated 4th level spell slot to use the runestaff - it's gone.

And what stops you from emulating the ability to cast a 4th-level spell again in 5 minutes? Since you aren't limited to your own spell slots - clearly you can't be, because with UMD there's no guarantee you'll have any, ever - what is the limit?

My point was - and forgive the lack of clarity - where is the device that enables you to summon a familiar? To use UMD, it must be applied to a device. I was trying to say that I know of no such device. I suppose there might be one but it's off my radar.

You've misunderstood. I'm not talking about an item that allows you to summon a familiar; that's a red herring, so I'll ignore the rest of what you wrote about that for now. Rather, I'm talking about activating a device which requires that the user have the "Familiar" class feature.

Just like, for instance, you could find a suit of armor that requires that wearer have the "Channel Positive Energy" class feature, or provides a bonus to someone who has it or some other ability. (E.g., Chainmail of Moradin is +1 chainmail and provides a +2 sacred bonus on saving throws when worn by someone with the Earth domain; a character trained in UMD could get the +2 sacred bonus to saves by emulating the "Earth domain" class feature of a Cleric 1.)

"It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature."

Certainly; consider the example armor above. It's "use activated."

When activated by most people (but putting it on and wearing it), it's +1 chainmail. When activated by someone who has the Earth domain class feature (or who is emulating such via UMD), it's +1 chainmail with a +2 sacred bonus to saving throws.

In the case of the UMD user, however, he is not able to "turn or destroy air creatures as a good cleric turns undead," even while wearing the armor. He can activate the item like he has the ability, but he can't actually use that ability.

If, instead, the armor were written as:

Chainmail of Moradin This +1 chainmail is imbued with the divine protection of the Father of Dwarves. As a standard action that does not provoke an AoO, expend 1 use of your Earth domain's turning ability to gain a +2 sacred bonus on saving throws for 1 minute; this is a supernatural ability.

... then the UMD guy couldn't use it as anything other than +1 chainmail, because he lacks the ability to actually expend a use of his Earth domain turning ability because UMD "does not let you actually use the class feature of another class."

 

[Andras]

So long as you can hit a DC 24 UMD check, you can cast that spell an unlimited number of times per day,

You do not know how runestaves work then since each spell in a runestaff is only usable for a LIMITED NUMBER OF TIMES PER DAY.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You do not know how runestaves work then since each spell in a runestaff is only usable for a LIMITED NUMBER OF TIMES PER DAY.

Right - the limit is no longer your class's "Spells per Day" is now "How many runestaves do you have?" It's 3x per day, per spell in the runestaff.

Does it make you feel better if you change my wording to "effectively unlimited"? You're still expending imaginary spell slots to power something meant to be powered by actual spellslots.

Moreover, there's this interesting little tidbit, now that I've got the book in front of me:

In order to use a runestaff, you must attune yourself to it as part of your preparation or readying of arcane spells. You can't attune yourself to more than one runestaff at a time; attuning yourself to a second runestaff breaks your previous attunement.

Since it is not possible for a Rogue to prepare or ready arcane spells, he'll probably have a hard time meeting that prereq.

 

[Andras]

A Sorcerer spends 15min readying spells.

Emulate Class Feature: Spells.

"It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature."


Since you posted the part about one can only have 1 runestaff attuned at a time, why did you even bother including the response about multiple runestaffs?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Since you posted the part about one can only have 1 runestaff attuned at a time, why did you even bother including the response about multiple runestaffs?

Because if you're a Rogue, you don't ready or prepare spells, so presumably you're going to be using a staff you haven't attuned to.

Were you planning on attuning to a staff?

If you were, how were you planning on doing so? Attuning to the staff does not appear to be activating it, which is done when you cast a spell.

Additionally, I came across that bit later, so I edited it in.

 

[Ranes]

Okay. I buy it now. Thanks for the explanation.

I love this place.

 

[Bederal]

Man Patryn you have the patience of a saint.

 

[Sekhmet]

By the way, the text referring to Lidda using a Chalice states "Lidda finds a magic chalice that turns regular water
into holy water when a cleric or an experienced paladin channels
positive energy into it as if turning undead. She attempts to activate
the item by emulating the cleric’s undead turning ability."

No Turn Undead uses are actually expended when a Cleric or Paladin uses the Chalice, it's a perfectly legitimate use of UMD.
Edit: Failed italics. b works but not i? Ridiculous.

 

[Talonblaze]

I think this is what I make of it;

Rogue's can emulate features that require a prerequisite for example:
"Chalic of Healing; To use, a player must have turn undead as a class ability; use Cure serious wounds 3x per day."
Something like that would work, since the Rogue can emulate having Turn Undead as a prereq.

However, this instance would not work.
"Chalic of Stored Healing; To use, a player must have turn undead as a class ability; expend one use of Turn Undead to gain an additional charge; Cure Critical Wounds 3x per day."

In the last example, yes the Rogue WOULD still qualify to use the item AND the Cure Critical Wounds for that 3x per day, but she would NOT be able to use her emulation to expend a use she doesn't have to gain another charge.

This includes any example that needs resources to be spent. A Rogue can fake, they can't do.
*These items are purely fictional AFAIK. Just examples.

 

[kitcik]

By the way, the text referring to Lidda using a Chalice states "Lidda finds a magic chalice that turns regular water
into holy water when a cleric or an experienced paladin channels
positive energy into it as if turning undead. She attempts to activate
the item by emulating the cleric’s undead turning ability."

No Turn Undead uses are actually expended when a Cleric or Paladin uses the Chalice, it's a perfectly legitimate use of UMD.
Edit: Failed italics. b works but not i? Ridiculous.

What class ability allows a cleric or paladin to channel positive energy as if turning undead other than expending a use of Turn Undead?