Rust Monster Lovin'

[Klaus]

Actually, you're right. Try this exchange.

DM: You spy a small insectoid creature with feathery antenea and a strange paddle-like tail.
Player #1: I swat it with my sword
DM: Roll a REF save
Player #1: *rolls 1*, Darn I blew it, what happens?
DM: Your sword immediately turns to rust in your hands, the monster waves its antenea and *rolls* your armor is also rusting away
Player #1: But, that was my favorite weapon and armor!
DM: Suck it up meat-bag!
Player #1: Piss off jerk! I'll go play with someone else! *gets up and leaves table*

This could be fixed by changing this as follows...

DM: You spy a small insectoid creature with feathery antenea and a strange paddle-like tail.
Player #1: I swat it with my sword
DM: Roll a REF save
Player #1: *rolls 1*, Darn I blew it, what happens?
DM: Your sword becomes pitted with rust. You suspect that another couple hits, and your sword will be damaged beyond repair.
DM: The monster also bites you *rolls* and hits for 6 points of damage. You notice your armor starts to corrode just like your sword.
Player #1: What the $%#^! So it's like a metal-rust monster? Ah crap! I pull back before it gets my armor again, and sheathe my favorite sword...
DM: The monster skitters toward you, waving its antennae.
Player #1: Damn it's fast! Since I can't run, I pull my mace and use that. *rolls* I hit!
DM: *rolls* Although the creature takes some damage, your mace also becomes pitted with rust. *rolls* The thing's antennae strike your armor. The corrosion spreads.
Player #1: I need to end this before I lose my armor! I take another swing with the mace and Power Attack for all I'm worth.*rolls*
DM: Your blow splits open the creature's carapace. However, your mace starts to disintegrate, crumbling into red dust in your hands. You hear skittering as three more creatures come out through a hole in the opposite corner.
Player #1: I RUN!!!

The player here has lost a weapon and his armor's been degraded. His sword is damaged but repairable. He was given a chance to save his favorite weapon. If he had friends, they could have stepped in to "share the burden." He'll probably run from a rust monster in the future. And he still got to have fun!

To me, that's a WHOLE lot more satsifying. He can CHOOSE to take the hit to his gear and go for the fight. Or not.

That's what should determine the outcome in an encounter. Choice, not chance.

My opinion.

I agree with this post.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

+1 Platearmor is 2950gp. Might be your prized possession and the bulk of your wealth on that day you encountered 2 Rust Monsters -- one died quickly enough but the other got some hits in. Do you carry some spare chainmail around a dungeon so you can continue?

No but an inventive player can probably figure out a way to come up with a solution, and a good DM can work with that.

Way back in the 1st edition days, I had a PC lose a TON of magic to a Black Dragon's breath weapon - I rolled horribly and lost my armor, 2 swords, a magic cloak, and a couple of other things. The party was travelling to another city, but I remembered having bypassed a treasure vault in a much earlier adventure - we couldn't manage it at the time, but at the level I was, I thought I could probably handle it solo. I asked the DM if I could do a short solo game before the next session to try and tackle it. He said OK, I arranged to meet my party a few days later, and did the job. Got some armor and a weapon out of it, and at least felt like I was back close to par.

 

[mearls]

I agree with this post.

That's a good way to summarize what the rust monster should look like.

The threat of losing your equipment has a very interesting effect on the encounter. The thinking behind such effects deserves its own column, so I'm tossing it on to the stack of stuff to write about.

A better rust monster re-design would allow for the destruction of armor and weapons within the scope of an encounter. The history of the rust monster is important to preserve, as is its impact on the game.

 

[Ourph]

You have noticed that a mindless frontal attack against this wholly optional provided for free result of a thought experiment is still a bad idea, right?

When did critiqueing bad ideas become a bad idea?

 

[Geron Raveneye]

One thing is definitely fascinating...that players would send their characters into fights up to the last few hit points, unto death even, while they'd run as soon as the precious equipment is threatened.

 

[Knight Otu]

"The popular name rust monster comes from the common legend that it turns metal into rust, but that is an understandable misconception of the creature's feeding habits. In fact, it feeds in a way that is reminiscent of a spider. Its antennae excude a reddish liquid on contact with metal. This liquid weakens the structural integrity of any metal, but is mostly harmless to other materials. Once the metal object is weakened enough, it can start eating by using its impressive mandibles to break off chunks just big enough to devour.
The reddish liquid, which leaves 'poxs' on the metal looking much like iron rust, is highly unstable. While the initial reaction weakens the metal, the resulting 'rust' and any remaining ilquid slowly deflagrate in contact with air, returning the material to its original strength if the rust monster is incapable of devouring the metal object in time."

 

[ValhallaGH]

One thing is definitely fascinating...that players would send their characters into fights up to the last few hit points, unto death even, while they'd run as soon as the precious equipment is threatened.

The first is heroic, and we all want to see ourselves as heroes.
The second is just a pain in the kiester.

 

[MarkB]

One thing is definitely fascinating...that players would send their characters into fights up to the last few hit points, unto death even, while they'd run as soon as the precious equipment is threatened.

Hitpoints can be replaced in minutes. Death, at higher character levels, lasts overnight. Equipment carefully selected over months of gameplay, optimised to your character and vice versa, costing a large percentage of your total wealth, is not nearly so replaceable.

 

[Knight Otu]

When did critiqueing bad ideas become a bad idea?

Uhhm, look, a Demogorgon! Good thing it's not a dragon!

As noted earlier, I do think the rust monster, possible explanations aside for the autorepair, should deal permanent damage to weapons. I'm with many more people on that. I just don't think it is some sort of change to protect poor players with no sense for risks - the risks are still there, especially if the rust monster has company that can make use its unique abilities. It is no longer a creature you simply throw against players for a challenging encounter, but one you combine with other creatures, or send in multiples, for a challenging encounter.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

But to change a monster around to not discourage or "offend" players who are being introduced to the game, to somehow make it more safe or palatable ... I honestly don't see a need for it. After all the DM can just not include one if need be.

That is a matter of game design philosopher and priorities.

IMNSHO good RPG design should provide a fairly comprehensible baseline of sensible risk vs. reward. It is not as if the DM is required to adhere to any such formula. And, in fact, vanilla 3e suggests that a typical mix of encounters should not only include level equivalent challenges.

Arbitrariness as some vague approximation of realism, if that floats you boat, is easy enough to add to any game. But it is more difficult to retrofit if it was not designed in in the first place.