D&D 5E Sabrina Spellman

[dave2008]

But isn't that still something external not internal?

Maybe, but the show makes it pretty clear that witches have the ability to use magic and humans do not. So the source may be primarily external, but the ability to use it is internal.

The one bit of contradictory evidence to this is that they mention exorcism by catholic priest (which I assume are human). Of course that may be completely external.

 

[CapnZapp]

I trust everyone realizes the futility of assigning stats and rules to a TV show where abilities will develop at the speed of plot?

That said, I wouldn't make Sabrina half-elf or tiefling. This isn't a race or species thing. Witches are still human, just supernatural "heightened" humans.

(Especially the females. The males seem to have gained their positions of power despite middling ability mostly... because they're male? )

I don't see any evidence of any racial traits like speed, grace or strength. (Or wisdom, for that matter. Just ask Mildred and the others who wanted to become Queen of the Feast ) Maybe attractiveness, but that's probably more "because Hollywood" than anything else...

In a show about Vampires or Werewolves, yes, traits based on race, absolutely. But here? This is more akin to a restricted class choice. Regular humans can basically only be Commoners (which, in the context of D&D, covers basically everything from miners and waitresses to mayors and headmasters).

Sabrina & Co can choose the "Witch" class, which definitely includes spellcasting, but mostly of the indirect ingredient-heavy sort. Probably of at least two varieties that are most unbalanced - cf "full" and "partial" Heka Practitioners in Gary Gygax' Dangerous Journeys (read: some witches get ten times as many spell points as others, at least when The Plot wants them to). It also includes a few Monk-like physical upgrades (like long life).

This will help with "future compatibility", since it's fairly evident that Sabrina's friends will all end up with a "prestige class" of sorts - Harvey the Witch Hunter, Rosalind the Oracle and Susie the Ghostwalker.

 

[Sadras]

Well, all that is left now is to stat up Gobbolino and Sootica

 

[gyor]

I trust everyone realizes the futility of assigning stats and rules to a TV show where abilities will develop at the speed of plot?

That said, I wouldn't make Sabrina half-elf or tiefling. This isn't a race or species thing. Witches are still human, just supernatural "heightened" humans.

(Especially the females. The males seem to have gained their positions of power despite middling ability mostly... because they're male? )

I don't see any evidence of any racial traits like speed, grace or strength. (Or wisdom, for that matter. Just ask Mildred and the others who wanted to become Queen of the Feast ) Maybe attractiveness, but that's probably more "because Hollywood" than anything else...

In a show about Vampires or Werewolves, yes, traits based on race, absolutely. But here? This is more akin to a restricted class choice. Regular humans can basically only be Commoners (which, in the context of D&D, covers basically everything from miners and waitresses to mayors and headmasters).

Sabrina & Co can choose the "Witch" class, which definitely includes spellcasting, but mostly of the indirect ingredient-heavy sort. Probably of at least two varieties that are most unbalanced - cf "full" and "partial" Heka Practitioners in Gary Gygax' Dangerous Journeys (read: some witches get ten times as many spell points as others, at least when The Plot wants them to). It also includes a few Monk-like physical upgrades (like long life).

This will help with "future compatibility", since it's fairly evident that Sabrina's friends will all end up with a "prestige class" of sorts - Harvey the Witch Hunter, Rosalind the Oracle and Susie the Ghostwalker.

The only male in a position of authority, aside from Satan who really isn't supposed to have a sex, as angels are genderless, is the high priest, but nothing in the show says a woman can't be high priest in the Church of Night and in fact it's clear that they can be.

 

[mrpopstar]

The only male in a position of authority, aside from Satan who really isn't supposed to have a sex, as angels are genderless, is the high priest, but nothing in the show says a woman can't be high priest in the Church of Night and in fact it's clear that they can be.

Sabrina's father was also a high priest and she's only special because of him. There's also the principal, Harvey's dad and Susie's dad—all of whom are in positions of authority and represent toxic masculinity in its various permutations. Rosalind's dad stands out as being emotionally intelligent, and Harvey as emotionally sensitive. It's certainly a feminist manifesto, but that is both justified and topical given the witchery premise.

 

[CapnZapp]

The only male in a position of authority, aside from Satan who really isn't supposed to have a sex, as angels are genderless, is the high priest, but nothing in the show says a woman can't be high priest in the Church of Night and in fact it's clear that they can be.

Did you quote the wrong poster? Where do I talk about gender and authority?

What has Satan's chastity to do with prestige classes? (I do have to thank you for allowing me to ask that question )

 

[CapnZapp]

Sabrina's father was also a high priest and she's only special because of him. There's also the principal, Harvey's dad and Susie's dad—all of whom are in positions of authority and represent toxic masculinity in its various permutations. Rosalind's dad stands out as being emotionally intelligent, and Harvey as emotionally sensitive. It's certainly a feminist manifesto, but that is both justified and topical given the witchery premise.

Of course - yes, the whole concept of witchcraft is in a way much more related to authority than magic. Dismissing the show as just for intersectional feminists ignores this fact. I get why some people might just want to bring out the popcorn and see hot chicks cast spells, but to me the added layers make the show better, more smart and mature.

That said, one inescapable reflection is: "why do these women subordinate themselves if they're so powerful?"

Obviously real women don't have fantasy powers, and so it would be incredibly ignorant to ask this of them. Luckily for me the Spellmans aren't ordinary women. My point is, isn't there a whiff of have-and-eat-cakism here? Logically they need to show how High Priest Blackwood (or Satan) puts the boot down to enforce the patriarchy, except "strong active males" is the opposite of what the show wants to be about.

 

[gyor]

Did you quote the wrong poster? Where do I talk about gender and authority?

What has Satan's chastity to do with prestige classes? (I do have to thank you for allowing me to ask that question )

I didn't mean sexless as in chasity, I meant sexless as in Satan would not really be male in the human sense of the term.

Anyways I've watched the rest of the series and I think someone on their writing staff is finding ways to subltly undermine their feminist messaging. Satan is supposed to represent the patriarchy, but he in practice is indirectly the biggest feminist in the show.

The feminist club, her teacher, or the demon pretending to be her teacher, pushed Sabrina into using dark magic against the Principle to start a feminism club, as part of a plan to get Sabrina to sign the book of the beast, and so on. The whole feminist angle is a just a tool Satan's servant uses to manipulate Sabrina into servicing Satan. Seriously for a force of supposed female oppression Satan spends all a lot of time granting them power to torment and control men and destroy their enemies.

And the weirdest most ironic thing is Sabrina seems to do most of her fighting and magic to protect the males in her life from women, including killing the very souls of women. She talks like a feminist, acts like a female MRA. Sabrina is the Christina Hoff Summers of the fantasy genre.

Anyways there are a lot of great character inspiration for Ravnica guilds, the Church of Night = Orzhov, with a few Rakdos moments mostly. Father Blackwell as a Pontiff of Orzhov, Satan is like a Deathless Obzedat member that became so dark he became a demon, or maybe a former Archangel that went rogue and joined the Orzhov.

 

[CapnZapp]

Of course Satan is male. That's the fundamental underpinning of the entire show. Sabrina has already started talking about taking him down. That would be the ultimate patriarchy to fall.

I do agree that for a supposedly feminist show, a lot of the women act like catty bitches fighting among themselves... The episode about the Queen of Feast really blew my mind - all the witches (except Sabrina) are revealed as basically chaotic evil cannibals!

The whole feminist angle is a just a tool Satan's servant uses to manipulate Sabrina into servicing Satan.

That's.... that's... one way of putting it.

I'd say it stands more to reason Sabrina and her two friends are supposed to be the modern women of the show. Feminism comes to them naturally.

Madam Satan is manipulating Sabrina, but there's no reason to assume she's just a mindless tool of Satan. I think it makes more sense to think of Satan as putting a number of (more or less clear) end goals in front of his servants, not caring how they achieve them. I certainly didn't get any vibe of him mandating feminism must somehow be involved.

 

[CapnZapp]

And the weirdest most ironic thing is Sabrina seems to do most of her fighting and magic to protect the males in her life from women, including killing the very souls of women.

If you want to feature women as strong ( or at least active) and men as weak (or at least precoccupied with maintaining their appearance), Sabrina's foes pretty much gotta be female.

Not sure I see what's "weird" or "ironic" about that.