SAGA Condition Track?

[Blue]

One of the things from the Star Wars game that looked interesting was the condition track. Since many ideas were mined from that over for 4e, anyone have any thoughts on why that wasn't? Was there any designer discussion that I missed?

(This isn't bashing anything, just curious since it seemed to be something that might fit well.)

Cheers,
=Blue(23)

 

[Nebulous]

The SAGA condition track would work fine for D&D i think, we already have minor actions to use in place of the swift actions. It's the use of Action Points that is so different in the two games. AP's in 4e allow extra moves, whereas AP's in Star Wars literally saves you from dying.

 

[Steely Dan]

They decided to go with the Bloodied Condition mechanic instead.

 

[loseth]

They decided to go with the Bloodied Condition mechanic instead.

The two don't really do the same thing for me. The bloodied mechanic acts as a flag for allowing certain contingent actions to happen. The SAGA track is mainly a system for simplifying oodles of different condition modifiers, giving a faster, smoother gameplay experience. They're both cool, but I don't really get how having one obviates the need for the other.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

The SAGA condition track would work fine for D&D i think, we already have minor actions to use in place of the swift actions. It's the use of Action Points that is so different in the two games. AP's in 4e allow extra moves, whereas AP's in Star Wars literally saves you from dying.

It might work fine. I think that the designers asked themselves many times when creating 4e, "Does this make the game better and help create a game of heroic fantasy?" If it didn't advance that goal, it looks like it was dropped.

In the case of this mechanic, I think it simply didn't add enough to the game to make it worthwhile. Plus, most heroes would continue fighting until their death without slowing down in fantasy literature.

Star Wars is more about "realism" than most fantasy stories.

 

[Zephrin the Lost]

I was wondering about the condition track as well, as there are so many powers and effects in D&D that would be served by such a fetaure. Things like hexes, poisons, etc could all be tied to the track.

But then I realized if the designers tied too many powers or abilities to the condition track, it might make for a quick trip to the bottom if players coordinated their powers to make that happen. However, if there are too many exception to what would move a being down the track, the track itself becomes more trouble than it is worth.

--Z

 

[Nebulous]

But for what it's worth, i'm glad SW and D&D have a totally different mechanic for damage, death and AP. They still feel like different games while being fundamentally the same. Both systems seem very solid.

Although i really dig 4e monster design over anything else. It would be interesting to see what a party of SW characters did against a troop of "shifty" kobolds and a warcaster...

 

[smathis]

The SAGA condition track would work fine for D&D i think, we already have minor actions to use in place of the swift actions. It's the use of Action Points that is so different in the two games. AP's in 4e allow extra moves, whereas AP's in Star Wars literally saves you from dying.

Any ideas on using the Condition Track in 4e? How do you think it would affect gameplay?

This is one of those things that I think would be a good fit for the DMG.

 

[Insight]

I was thinking about this yesterday. I'm in 2 SWSE games at the moment, one playing and one running, and I like the Condition Track concept. I think for D&D, you'd want a simplified version; SWSE is in itself a less complex system than D&D4E, so it can handle the extra 'weight' of the Condition Track -- I'm not sure you want to add complication to D&D4E's combat system.

So maybe for 4E, your Condition Track could be a flat -1 to all attack rolls, skill checks, and other d20 rolls for each step you lose. Threshold would be the same (essentially your Fort Defense).

 

[ruleslawyer]

This is one of those things that I think requires a comprehensive examination of the 4e rules to tease out. IMO, the condition track works best if used in place of, rather than alongside, a large array of status effects. Shaken, disabled, dazed, sickened, nauseated: All of those types of conditions can be replaced by the condition track. If, OTOH, these effects are hardwired into the 4e rules (and TBH, I can't really tell from the DDXP previews if they are), then I'd see little need for a condition track.