Sage Advice adds 6th printing errata

[Caliban]

Specific overrides the general. Elf Trance is specific. It overrides the general requirement for long rest. "After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep." - problem is, humans don't need 8 hours of sleep (and sleep wasn't even required for a long rest). So it was kind of vague as to what the actual effect would be.

They've gone back and forth on it, but with the errata to the Long Rest (specifically requiring at least 6 hours of sleep), they've settled on the Trance ability just cutting the Long Rest in half instead of reducing the sleeping portion of the long rest.

I never found it confusing, just kind of annoying. Sorry you had trouble with it. At least they've now settled on a clear, simple answer (Trance cuts long rest in half).

 

[CapnZapp]

At least they've now settled on a clear, simple answer (Trance cuts long rest in half).

No, it isn't clear and simple. If they made the errata because the previous interaction of rules was hard to understand, they have failed, since the current state is just as confusing.

They still don't address the issue, and the rules still don't easily gel together.

Previously, it fell to Sage Advice to explain that elf trance wasn't meant to shorten the length of a long rest, despite there really being nothing in the actual rules to support that reading.

Now, it falls to Sage Advice to explain the previous decision has been reversed, despite the fact no relevant rules has actually changed, and so we still don't understand why the change happened!

Not to mention how Sage Advice isn't mandatory for AL.

Contrast an actually competent errata editor, who would look at the text and issue errata for what really needs to change.

Take yourself as an example: why didn't they errata trance to say "Trance cuts long rest in half"...?





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[Caliban]

*shrug* Sorry you feel that way.

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[CapnZapp]

*shrug* Sorry you feel that way.

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Caliban, I don't need your sympathy, I just need your acknowledgement they are going about it in a perplexingly ineffectual way.

Cheers,
Zapp

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[Caliban]

Well...I'm sorry you feel you need validation from me. This just seems like an incredibly minor issue to get worked up about.

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[pukunui]

I think it would've been better if they'd also errata'd Trance to bring it in line with the changes to the Long Rest mechanic, rather than trying to reinterpret it via Sage Advice.

 

[CapnZapp]

I think it would've been better if they'd also errata'd Trance to bring it in line with the changes to the Long Rest mechanic, rather than trying to reinterpret it via Sage Advice.

Bingo!

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[CapnZapp]

The September Sage Advice column is up, and while generally the advice given in Sage Advice is optional for use by AL DMs, advice that makes it into the game as official errata is not optional. The DLDMG notes that AL DMs are expected to run games using the rules in the Player's Handbook, so any change to those rules should be incorporated by AL DMs.

Thank you. The bit about Sage Advice is this (for those not in the know):

Sage Advice is a great barometer for ‘rules-as-intended’, in any case. Whether or not any given Dungeon Master chooses to utilize Sage Advice as a resource for rules adjudication in D&D Adventurers League play is at the discretion of each individual DM. As always, the DM remains the final arbiter of how a rule is to be implemented in their game.

But where does this leave Elfs? You do not bring up the interaction between elf trance and long rests, Pauper. And rightly so, since Sage Advice doesn't apply to AL.

What has been the accepted way to run elves before in AL games? Do you expect a change now?

(Since no actual rule regarding either elf trance in particular or how it interacts with long rests has changed, I'm guessing the answer must be "elf trance is handled in AL just like before" with "before" being "expect table variation", yes?)

More specifically, if any one of you expects Elfs to be handled differently, in that they previously needed 8 hours to complete a long rest, and now only needs 4, what specific rule do you base this change on?

The only argument I can see is that elf trance replaces the need for sleep. But how the errata, which adds in an actual requirement for sleep, can make your rest go from 8 to 4 hours, I cannot fathom.

I agree errata was needed because elf trance previously didn't actually do anything (since all it did was replace something nobody needed to do).

And I maintain that if the devs wanted to switch from 8 hour elf long rests to 4, they have never said anything on this matter in the rules, not for, not against.

The real million dollar question, of course, is why on earth the devs wants to keep the length of elf long rests as something undefined...? (clarified, yes; defined, no)

 

[Pauper]

But where does this leave Elfs? You do not bring up the interaction between elf trance and long rests, Pauper. And rightly so, since Sage Advice doesn't apply to AL.

I believe the plural of 'elf' is 'elves', at least in D&D. (See Basic Rules, pp.13-15) Lord Dunsany approves, though.

Also, Sage Advice *can* apply to AL, if the DM chooses to allow it. "Whether or not any given Dungeon Master chooses to use Sage Advice as a resource for rules adjudication in D&D Adventurers League play is at the discretion of each individual DM." (AL FAQ 6.1, p.3)

Other than that, you've answered your own question:

(Since no actual rule regarding either elf trance in particular or how it interacts with long rests has changed, I'm guessing the answer must be "elf trance is handled in AL just like before" with "before" being "expect table variation", yes?)

The rules in question:

"A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch." (BR, p.67, as noted in PH-Errata 1.22, p.2)

"Elves don't need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day...After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep." (BR, p.15)

Back in September of 2015, Jeremy Crawford published in Sage Advice that the intent of the elvish trance rule was not to let elves complete long rests in just 4 hours; it simply let them spend the other 4 hours of a long rest in the 'light activity' that other races could only do for 2 hours. However, since this was itself published in Sage Advice and not in errata, AL DMs could choose to follow the advice or not.

Given that relatively few AL games require characters to take long rests during an adventure, this isn't a rule that will come up all that often -- but when it does, "you [the DM] are the final arbiter of any ambiguities that might arise..." (FAQ 6.1, p.3)

--
Pauper

 

[CapnZapp]

Thank you, [MENTION=17607]Pauper[/MENTION]. It means elf long rests are just as undefined as before.