Sage Advice: Sneak Attacks, Breath Weapons, and Magic Weapons

The month's Sage Advice column by WotC's Jeremy Crawford covers the rogue's sneak attacks, ability modifiers to use with attack roles, and answers the questions "does anti-magic field work on a dragon's breath weapon?" (no), and "do magic weapons automatically give you bonus to both attack and damage rolls?" (only if it says so in the description).

The Sage Advice Compendium PDF has been updated to include this information. You can read the current column here.

 

[Hriston]

In the case of melee attacks, there are melee attacks that are not melee weapon attacks and not melee spell attacks.

Can you give me an example of this?

 

[Hriston]

I don't think so. Melee weapons use strength whether you are using them for melee attacks or ranged attacks, because if you're using melee attacks with them, they're "thrown", which uses Str.

The thrown property is an explicit exception to the rule. It doesn't apply when you throw, for example, a longsword.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

[MENTION=6788085]Faenor[/MENTION], I have to add my voice to those of the others asking for an example of this supposed melee attack that is not a melee weapon attack and not a melee spell attack.

 

[Hriston]

You can't. The only way to make a Melee Weapon Attack with a Ranged Weapon is to make an Improvised Melee Attack. The same goes for making a Ranged Weapon Attack with a Melee Weapon.

No, you simply take you ranged weapon in hand (let's say it's a bow), and hit someone over the head with it. You've made a melee weapon attack with it. See how easy that is? The same goes for throwing your sword (a melee weapon) at someone. There, you've made a ranged weapon attack with a melee weapon.

There seems to be some confusion as to what the words (or rather keywords as established in 5e) mean. Hriston is not using them as they are defined in 5e and Faenor (understandably) is confused as to why they are being used if not for their defined meaning if they are going to be brought up in a rules discussion. So am I.

What words are you saying I'm not using according to their defined meaning? If you're confused, feel free to ask me what I mean.

 

[Faenor]

There aren't, it's a good point.

 

[jaelis]

There aren't, it's a good point.

Well good, it sounds like we're all on the same page then

I guess there's still some ambiguity about exactly how improvised weapons should be considered though. But I'm not sure it actually makes any difference in the end. Just to see, how would people adjudicate someone throwing a longsword? Dex to hit and damage? Str to hit and damage? Something else? (And this is going by the rules as you understand them, setting aside the fact that a DM can bend or change the rules when it makes sense to.)

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

Well good, it sounds like we're all on the same page then

I guess there's still some ambiguity about exactly how improvised weapons should be considered though. But I'm not sure it actually makes any difference in the end. Just to see, how would people adjudicate someone throwing a longsword? Dex to hit and damage? Str to hit and damage? Something else? (And this is going by the rules as you understand them, setting aside the fact that a DM can bend or change the rules when it makes sense to.)

Attack roll uses Dex and no proficiency bonus. Damage is 1d4+Dex. Throwing a melee weapon that doesn't have the thrown property is treated as an improvised weapon with which you make a ranged weapon attack.

 

[Hriston]

Improvised thrown weapon (longsword). Ranged Weapon Attack: + Dex bonus (+ proficiency bonus if you have Tavern Brawler) to hit, range 20/60 ft., one target. Hit: 1d4 + Dex bonus. Damage type depends on how you describe throwing it (most likely bludgeoning).

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I too agree that throwing a longsword would be a ranged attack with an improvised weapon, so Dexterity used for attack and damage bonus, with proficiency only being added if proficient with improvised weapons. The attack would deal 1d4 base damage, and have a range of 20/60 feet.

As for the damage type, I'm leaning toward bludgeoning because a sharp-surface or point-forward contact seem unlikely given how I envision someone throwing a longsword (which is grabbing it by the blade and hurling it overhand to cause it to flip, and likely spin, through the air towards the target). If the player explained some other sort of throw that made sense in context, I might go for either other type of damage, circumstantially.

 

[jaelis]

For the record, I would also say Dex to attack and 1d4+Dex damage. Damage type is interesting, but given that it pretty rarely matters, I'm not going to worry about it

I suppose a more contentious question might be whether a fighter with Dueling style would get to add the +2 damage bonus. I think Aaron would say no because it's not a melee weapon any more. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that reasoning, but I would still say no because you aren't wielding the weapon in your hand if you throw it. On the other hand, if you wanted to deal bludgeoning damage with your longsword by hitting an enemy with the pommel or something, I would treat it as an improvised attack but I would probably let you add your bonus since I think a longsword is still a melee weapon.