Sage Answer: Haste & 5ft Step(s)

[Uller]

No one else finds it odd that if you are hasted you can take the extra Partial Action before your turn, use it to Move 30 feet, then take your normal action and take another Move action to move another 30 feet, and then attack someone, but if you instead take a 5' step during that initial extra partial action you are now somehow barred from moving again for the rest of the round?

I don't find it odd at all because if you took a 5' step at the beginning of the round(as part of your partial action) you did it to avoid an AoO OR you did it to allow you to get within range of something. If it is the former, then if you wanted to move more, then you just have to suck it up and take the AoO(in otherwords, you if you think you might want to move after your action, don't take the 5' step and take an AoO). If it is the latter, then I could see "bending"(not really even bending) the rules a bit and allow the character to move all he wants, but again, he'll suffer the AoO for moving and doing other actions. Again, YMMV. The rules are obviously not clear enough that every DM is going to rule the same...as long as you try to be consistant.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

No one else finds it odd that if you are hasted you can take the extra Partial Action before your turn, use it to Move 30 feet, then take your normal action and take another Move action to move another 30 feet, and then attack someone, but if you instead take a 5' step during that initial extra partial action you are now somehow barred from moving again for the rest of the round?

That's kind of why I will be ignoring this particular sage response. I've written to the sage before, and he doesn't always answer questions in a thoughtful manner (he has sometimes even missed entire questions).

I really ony use two principles for the answer to this question:
1) Can you take a 5-foot step with a partial action? Yes, as long as the partial isn't a move action.
2) Can you take a 5-foot step as part of a full round action? Yes, as long as you did not use part of the full round action to move.

Since (1) and (2) when hasted, therefore it is possible to take two 5-foot steps.

 

[Artoomis]

No one else finds it odd that if you are hasted you can take the extra Partial Action before your turn, use it to Move 30 feet, then take your normal action and take another Move action to move another 30 feet, and then attack someone, but if you instead take a 5' step during that initial extra partial action you are now somehow barred from moving again for the rest of the round?

I find that no odder than only 1 "5-foot step" allowed for a dragon (rather then a 10-foot, or even 20-foot step), or if your move rate happens to be 90 or more. Attempting to apply logic that's not within the rules for 5-foot steps just doesn't work well at all - unless you change a whole bunch of rules, that is.

 

[Uller]

That's kind of why I will be ignoring this particular sage response. I've written to the sage before, and he doesn't always answer questions in a thoughtful manner (he has sometimes even missed entire questions).

With that, we are in agreement. However, this answer is concise, clear and about as complete as you could ask for: One 5' step per round. Period. End of story. Haste does not change this(In the Sage's opinion...of course).

I really ony use two principles for the answer to this question:
1) Can you take a 5-foot step with a partial action? Yes, as long as the partial isn't a move action.
2) Can you take a 5-foot step as part of a full round action? Yes, as long as you did not use part of the full round action to move.

Since (1) and (2) when hasted, therefore it is possible to take two 5-foot steps.

Now...Using the rules of logic to explain D&D is about as useful as using the to explain(or discredit) religion. It just isn't realy applicable. Besides, you left out: 3) You can take a 5' step as part of an MEA if and only if you haven't already moved that _round_.

Therefore you may not take a 5' step as part of your partial action from haste if it is an MEA(by the absolute strict letter of the written rules without thinking about them and common sense).

If you can't take an extra one as part of an MEA, then you probably shouldn't be able to as part of other partial actions either. This assumes that you interprit the "only if you haven't moved" rule as only applying to MEAs. I believe that rule was meant to apply to all actions all the time(i.e. you can't move 30' and ready and action and then take a 5' move as part of your partial action).

 

[Artoomis]

For anyone who missed the previous debate for this questions, see:

5'-Step Discussion

Let's try and not repeat that whole debate here, shall we?

 

[IceBear]

What I find funny is that in my notes at home I have an answer from the Sage in which he says you *CAN* take two 5-foot steps when hasted (but normally you could only take one).

I wish he was consistent with his rulings.

IceBear

 

[shawjames]

What about a readied action?

If a hasted someone uses there full action, to ready a partial action, when that readied action triggers, do they get their readied partial action, and also their hasted partial action before the ready trigger? If so, do the need to announce their hasted partial action for the ready?

 

[Uller]

What I find funny is that in my notes at home I have an answer from the Sage in which he says you *CAN* take two 5-foot steps when hasted (but normally you could only take one).

I wish he was consistent with his rulings.

IceBear

Maybe he realized he was in error and changed his stance? Just a theory...this is why I take his rulings as official advice rather than official rules. As far as I'm concerned, the official rules are in the PHB, DMG and MM. If I can't interprit that (or think it is a typo or otherwise erroneous) then I may refer to the sage's advice.

 

[Uller]

Re: What about a readied action?

If a hasted someone uses there full action, to ready a partial action, when that readied action triggers, do they get their readied partial action, and also their hasted partial action before the ready trigger? If so, do the need to announce their hasted partial action for the ready?

I _think_ this has been answered by the Sage(or maybe Caliban answered it here...). I don't recall the answer. IMO, no. You get you're readied action and that's it. If you want to give them their extra partial action also, maybe give it to them after the ready trigger....

 

[Artoomis]

Re: What about a readied action?

If a hasted someone uses there full action, to ready a partial action, when that readied action triggers, do they get their readied partial action, and also their hasted partial action before the ready trigger? If so, do the need to announce their hasted partial action for the ready?

I, too, recall that this was discussed previously, but with no search it is hard to know when and how it went.

In any case, technically if you want to preserve your hasted partail action and also get your extra action form haste, you need to use your extra partial action from haste first.

This is one example of how taking your extra action either before your regular actions is to your advantage.