Sage Answer: Haste & 5ft Step(s)

[IceBear]

Maybe he realized he was in error and changed his stance? Just a theory...this is why I take his rulings as official advice rather than official rules. As far as I'm concerned, the official rules are in the PHB, DMG and MM. If I can't interprit that (or think it is a typo or otherwise erroneous) then I may refer to the sage's advice.

Agreed. I just have this feeling, though, that if the question were asked again in a couple of months, he'll revert back to his original answer .

I, personally, find it a lot less hassle to allow an extra 5-ft step with the haste (a la the original Sage's answer), but that's just me and my group.

IceBear

 

[KarinsDad]

I find that no odder than only 1 "5-foot step" allowed for a dragon (rather then a 10-foot, or even 20-foot step), or if your move rate happens to be 90 or more. Attempting to apply logic that's not within the rules for 5-foot steps just doesn't work well at all - unless you change a whole bunch of rules, that is.

Actually, I find both of them very odd.

I have the same problem at work though. Somebody comes up with a design for something and there is never enough time and effort available to test out all permutations, hence, stuff falls through the cracks.

Oh well.

Personally, I think they should have done Haste in a totally different way where you actually get 3 normal actions every 2 rounds (1 action every other round for Slow), but that's a different issue. It would have cleared up Wizards getting more spells off per round, but Fighters getting only one extra attack per round, 5 foot step questions, etc.

 

[Albereth]

Agreed. I just have this feeling, though, that if the question were asked again in a couple of months, he'll revert back to his original answer .

I, personally, find it a lot less hassle to allow an extra 5-ft step with the haste (a la the original Sage's answer), but that's just me and my group.

IceBear

Actually, if I remember the thread on this recently, it was pointed out that the Sage had answered the same as this time once before then stated what you apparently have. This means he has answered the same way 2 out of 3 times for a clear majority thus making this the correct answer (for now) Now if someone keeps asking him every couple of months we could keep a running total and after a year see which way is answered more times but then the ones who believe it to be the other way would not think it is correct. Ah well such is life :shrug:

For me it is just a matter of how the 5' are moved. If the person states he is taking a 5' step then that is all he gets during the round hasted or not. If he moves 5 feet then he is subject to AoOs and can continue to move in later partials as long as none of them are AoO avoidance 5' steps.

Albereth

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Besides, you left out: 3) You can take a 5' step as part of an MEA if and only if you haven't already moved that _round_.

No, I didn't. That's why the "no-move" condition is in both my points. 5-foot steps are made as part of actions, not rounds.

 

[Artoomis]

No, I didn't. That's why the "no-move" condition is in both my points. 5-foot steps are made as part of actions, not rounds.

Sorry, as the sage's post helps to make clear (?) 5-foot steps are indeed part of rounds, not actions. Some actions (notably those with movement) prevent you from taking a 5-foot step for the round. After reading all the information on 5-foot steps in the PHB, I came to the conclusion that 5-foot steps are not tied to actions in any way whatsoever, but are tied to rounds.

I see you've come to a different conclusion.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

After reading all the information on 5-foot steps in the PHB, I came to the conclusion that 5-foot steps are not tied to actions in any way whatsoever, but are tied to rounds.

Where does it say "one 5-foot step per round"? I see one 5-foot step as part of a full-round (non-movement) action and a (non-movement) partial action, but I have yet to come across that (and I have been looking for it specifically).

If a 5-foot step is indeed not tied to an action, then a stunned character should be able to take a 5-foot step by this logic. A stunned character can't take any actions, but since a 5-foot move isn't tied to an action...

 

[KarinsDad]

Where does it say "one 5-foot step per round"? I see one 5-foot step as part of a full-round (non-movement) action and a (non-movement) partial action, but I have yet to come across that (and I have been looking for it specifically).

If a 5-foot step is indeed not tied to an action, then a stunned character should be able to take a 5-foot step by this logic. A stunned character can't take any actions, but since a 5-foot move isn't tied to an action...

You won't convince them that easily CG, but I got a kick out of your response nonetheless.

PS. The only one 5 foot per round rule is under the MEA section.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Edit: Found it.

 

[Artoomis]

Cloudgatherer:

Glossary entry for a 5-foot move:

A small position adjustment that does not count as movement...This movement does not draw an attack of opportunity

Page 117:

If your entire move for the round [emphaisis added] is 5 feet (a 5-foot step), enemies do not get attacks of opportunity for you moving.

Page 121:

If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move for one or more move-equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during or after the action.

Page 117 is the direct rule that states when you get a 5-foot step. When it's your only move. It's clear (to me, at least) that the rules that state which actions allow a 5-foot move are merely clarifications of the general rule - they serve to let you know what actions are permissive of a 5-foot move. I like to think of it as the defining the actions that prohibit a 5-foot move because that makes more sense to me, but it amounts to exactly the same thing.

The most important thing is to not get fooled into thinking an action grants you you a 5-foot step - that is never true. A particular action merely allows you to take the 5-foot step that you are otherwise allowed.

 

[dcollins]

For anyone who missed the previous debate for this questions, see:
5'-Step Discussion
Let's try and not repeat that whole debate here, shall we?

Why wouldn't we? Just like in this thread, it was noted on page 1 of the older thread that Sage has most recently ruled in this manner.