Sage: Mithril and Masterwork Stack

[Roland Delacroix]

The question of whether Mithril and Masterwork bonus' both apply to armor came up several times here and generated many opinions, but no conclusive answers. In Dragon 293 i noticed the Sage answered this question, though indirectlly. Heres the text:

"The dastana and charhar-aina each have an armor check penalty of 1. What armor check penalties to masterwork versions of these items have? What armor check penalty would mithril versions of these armors have?
The armor check penalty for any item of masterwork armor is reduced by 1 (see page 113 in the players handbook). A masterwork dastana or charhar-aina has an armor check penalty of 0.
Mithril reduces armor chack penalties by 3 (see page 243 in the dungeon masters guide). The minimum armor check penalty is 0. The reduction for mithril and masterwork stacks."

Bold emphasis mine. Well, there you have it. Indeed, a masterwork mithril breastplate does have an armor check penalty of only 1. If this isnt a revelation, oh well, but i remember when i posted this very question last month there were many different opinions. Of course whether Sage=Rules or Sage=Crack is still up to you.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

This has probably already been discussed...but...

Can you have non-masterwork Mithral Plate? Can you have masterwork Mithral Plate? I thought Mithral was masterwork or at least it had to be masterwork....

One of my players will be happy about this....

 

[Tarin Greenflame]

Well, technically, just because a fine material is used does not mean the quality of the item itself will be fine. A rather crude mithril breastplate could be fashioned, out of need or lack of skill just as well it could be finely crafted and worked with great time and skill put into it.

A bulky, poorly balanced suit of armor is still a poorly made suit of armor if it is made out of iron, copper, sliver, or any other material. Just as well, a suit of armor made with great care and precision will be higher quality than other suits of armor, no matter what type of material is used. And finally, just because an item is magical does not mean that it is the same type or level of magic affecting the item. Not all swords are +1 just because they are magical, for example.

 

[Rackhir]

This has been previously ruled on in Sage advice, the long and the short of it being. If you are going to the extra expense, time and effort of making it out of mythril you are going to have it be masterwork.

Yes, logically speaking you can have a diamond set on a cheap brass ring or a carbon fiber composite frame econobox car, you could get a set of silk overalls for shoveling animal dung in. It just doesn't make a great deal of sense, but it is logically possible.

However, if you wish to house rule things in such a fashion, that is your DM's right.

 

[kreynolds]

The reduction for mithril and masterwork stacks.

That was never in question for me, but the wording in the SRD is kind of vague, so I've been asked that a lot by fellow gamers. Glad I was right. I mean, how embarrasing would that be? Oh. Right. You guys know how badly I can embarrass myself. Death Blow ring any bells?

 

[Roland Delacroix]

Re: Re: Sage: Mithril and Masterwork Stack

That was never in question for me, but the wording in the SRD is kind of vague, so I've been asked that a lot by fellow gamers. Glad I was right.

Well, i asked it about a month ago and never got a solid answer just interpretations from the people here and at WotC boards. If the Sage ruled on it, its news to me and i guess all those folks who responded. Curiouslly most of the responses I got said they considered the masterwork quality already build in, that is they would't stack. I'm pretty happy with the answer especially since Scale Mail is one of my favorite armors but there wasnt much of a reason to use it over Breasplate up till now.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Re: Re: Re: Sage: Mithril and Masterwork Stack

Well, i asked it about a month ago and never got a solid answer just interpretations from the people here and at WotC boards. If the Sage ruled on it, its news to me and i guess all those folks who responded. Curiouslly most of the responses I got said they considered the masterwork quality already build in, that is they would't stack. I'm pretty happy with the answer especially since Scale Mail is one of my favorite armors but there wasnt much of a reason to use it over Breasplate up till now.

Is there still a reason. Sure a masterwork, mithral scale suit is cool, but wouldn't a masterwork, mithral breastplate be better. And no I don't have a book in front of me, so scuse me if I'm missing something obvious.

Minor beef for me, but basically it goes effectiveness wise chain shirt, breastplate, full plate. One suit in each category is just clearly superior, which category you want to use is dependent on dex and style, but which suit of armor out of a specific category never seems to be in question.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

this makes sense. i mean, the 'masterwork' status is attached to the final product, not the materials used to make it.

 

[kreynolds]

this makes sense. i mean, the 'masterwork' status is attached to the final product, not the materials used to make it.

Exactly. At least, that's been my thinking.

 

[Wolf72]

bleh!

yeah I remember going over this before too ...

I just HR'd it:

Items made from special materials are always considered MW for purposes of enhancement. They do not always gain the MW enhancements though. If an item has an enhancement bonus to attk (weapons) or Armor Check Penalty/ACP then that item does not gain a MW bonus [the two Do Not stack]. If the item does not have the aforementioned bonuses then it does gain the MW enhancement. If a special material has a negative modifier (jade/obsidian) the MW component does stack (so that –2 attk becomes a –1). Some items in the DMG do not have the 150/300gp price added in (mithral), so be sure to add that in as well.

mithral already has a -2 ACP it doesn't need the MW component ... if you do let it stack, be sure to add in the MW cost at least (some armor/weapons in the DMG do not include it)