Sailors on the River of Worlds- Update

[JoeGKushner]

I guess the next question is... do you have a list of sights that they'll be seeing or are you going to play it by ear?

For me, I'm still putting down the details. I'd like to have the PC's visit the Plane of Agony though... I'm a fan of Clive Barker's Hellraiser series so this is a no-brainer.

I'm also planning on having them move into the Diamond Throne setting, at least for a touch, as there is a plain there with multiple gates that allow access to a wide variety of dimensions. I figure since I'm not doing the whole river thing, that having several ways of getting around the planes might be more appropriate.

Still haven't decided if I'm using Sigil yet. I have a ton of sourcebooks for The Cage, but I used that setting pretty exclusively some years back when it was new and would rather work on things I haven't used yet.

 

[Psion]

I guess the next question is... do you have a list of sights that they'll be seeing or are you going to play it by ear?

I had some ideas, and was about to start a formal list and a plan the other day when I was rudely interupted.

From Beyond Countless Doorways, I was planning on hitting:

• Avidarel (Maybe... it resembles Carrigmoor, which I want to use more)
• Carrigmoor
• The Crystal Roads (Seems like it could make some interesting plot potential relating to my Jeweled City)
• Dendri
• The Lizard Kingdoms
• Ouno, the Storm Realm
• Palpatur
• Sleeping God's Soul (works great with the law vs. Chaos thing)
• The Ten Courts of Hell
• Tevaeral, Magic's Last Stand (maybe)
  and perhaps one or two "looking glass" worlds

From Book of the Planes

• Mâl
• Wandering Tavern of the Happy Toad God
• The Questing Grounds (GREAT plot hook... I like the thing on finding lost artifacts)

From Book of Eldritch Might III

• The Nexus (as an alternate Planar Pathway)
• Bastion of the D'Stradi (as a chaos raided world)
• Pool of Glenmasis (the party druid player would like a fey realm)
• The Vale of the Stars (a plot hook with Dragon Mages of Dragonwatch Harbor will reach here)
• City in the Storm (I will be working this in with Ouno - not as part of it, but a plot hook in Ouno will reach here)

Other Locales

• My "New World 15" (real name TBD). This is an alternate material world I am using as a host for third party material. Freeport, Bluffside, Mercenaries, and Mindshadows will all figure prominently (and the Bael are active in planar politics), and Mindshadow/Naranjan is the source of the plot hook I plan to pull them into the river with.
• Aphrodomis, my Ice Age world (will natually pull in frostburn stuff here)
• Perhaps some planescape locales.
• Whatever world I decide will host Dragonwatch Harbor
• Whatever world I decide will host The Jeweled City
• "Shadow Isle" - an island that is the death site of a god, and the impetus for working Requiem of a God in
• The Great Machine from Portals & Planes
• "The Dreaming Isle" - From an old White Wolf campaign magazine adventure, an island that appears normal, but has a dream realm in peril.

I also made a planar trait generator from the charts in Planes & Portals if I need a quick planar site.

Those are the ones I WANT to hit. I may have to pare it down depending on how my actual plot flows.

For me, I'm still putting down the details. I'd like to have the PC's visit the Plane of Agony though... I'm a fan of Clive Barker's Hellraiser series so this is a no-brainer.

I yanked some PS factions out to drop into the setting, and created some more of my own that will be more active on the river. One of the new ones I was creating is the Cult of Pain, and was thinking about making the Plane of Agony a holding for them.

I'm also planning on having them move into the Diamond Throne setting, at least for a touch, as there is a plain there with multiple gates that allow access to a wide variety of dimensions. I figure since I'm not doing the whole river thing, that having several ways of getting around the planes might be more appropriate.

My players will eventually travel other planar pathways. I intend to keep them on the river until 10th level or so, and let them play with flying ships for a while until I clamp down on their mobility a bit. I planned on some core plane stuff, but don't know if they will ever visit Sigil per se. In my setup, I plan for sigil to be only one of several planar metropoli.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Another thing I've been messing with are characters that I want the players to meet.

I've been going through some of my books and had a lower level write-up for a Master of A Thousand Blades from Portals & Planes. (Did I get that right.)

Looking it over, I'm a little worried about some of the abilities in the class. Like giving a weapon a 10 foot reach...

Still, some interesting opportunities for mayhem there. I'm using an NPC who came from the world where the demons are attacking it, using their skin and bones as armor and weapons. I'll have him hook up with the PC's in an effort to turn back the tide a little, perhaps a members of the Faceless Legion from Book of Planes.

Will you be using any of the Chaos stuff out of this book, or sticking more or less with Chaositech?

Have you checked out Seven Civlizations from Atlas? There are some interesting ideas in that book. One of 'em, unless I'm getting my books mixed up, is a Mirror Plane. I'm thinking of taking that Mirror Master from the Book of Eldritch Might and having the practice coming from that.

And you will be using the Nexus eh? One of the concerns I have with it, is that the protector just isn't strong enough, especially when you start getting to higher level campaigns. I mean heck, in my baseline campaign of the Forgotten Realms, many of the mages from that setting could easily knock her out of her place. I'd probably do something like this and show her using her mastery of the Nexus to overcome the enemies, maybe a Thayian invasion or something along those lines.

Lastly, I see you mentioning The Book of Hell again. Man, wish I hadn't put my order with another book on preorder. I'd have it by now.

 

[Psion]

Will you be using any of the Chaos stuff out of this book, or sticking more or less with Chaositech?

Which "this book"? Portals and Planes? Yes. I'll probably be using it more than Chaositech, in fact (this P&P stuff is easier to use, and I have some heartburn with the Chaositech pricing and construction rules.) Last game, the players got to fight some chaos spawn barbarians and some of those little chaos lumps-of-flesh things from P&P.

I have a long term villain I created using P&P and the book of templates here, and might drop more in later. I was thinking of drawing from different sources on chaos and presenting them as different "factions" of chaos, giving them a more distinctive flavor. (One has Chaositech, one has Chaos Legionaire, one has demons, one has chaos mages, etc.)

Have you checked out Seven Civlizations from Atlas?

Not as of yet. The places I usually shop lack Atlas stuff lately so I have been unable to pick it up.

Lastly, I see you mentioning The Book of Hell again. Man, wish I hadn't put my order with another book on preorder. I'd have it by now.

What? Aargh! Sorry, that was supposed to be Book of the Planes up there, not Book of Hell. Book of Hell has some salvagable bits, but didn't inspire me. It probably won't get much use.

 

[JoeGKushner]

How about the World Serpent Inn? That was another plane shifting inn from AD&D 1st edition that's been mentioned a few times in various products. Tales from the Planes or something? Had the Githyianki on the cover.

Will you be using the Astral Plane at all? Dungeon has a few good adventures about Githikyani in the Astral.

As far as "Which Book", yeah, I meant the Portals & Planes book.

Do you have any of the old Warhammer Realms of Chaos books? Talk about Chaos man! That could really give you some material to work with.

On your NPC there, with Complete Arcane supposed to be having the Wild Mage return, are you going to revisit him? I'm terrible when it comes to doing that, usually just going with another NPC. Still, after putting templates on him, I doubt that's the way you want to go. He does look like he needs some beefing up in the equipment department though.

One thing you might want to consider with that NPC, are having him "Spawn". Some of the trolls in the Iron Kingdoms spawn when lost limbs take on a life of their own. Perhaps he can have 'children' that have short, chaotic, and destrutive lives. "Spawn of Ryss..." Yeah, I can see it now.

Will you have any doomed chaos champions that turn against their master? Heck, it's a classic theme in Elric at least. I know you've read the Slayers d20 book, but have you seen any of the anime? There's a priest (Mysterious Priest Xellos), who works alongside the group who never harms them (actually helps them for a while)is working for the main bad guy and despite that, survives into the next series of the anime. Some pretty interesting stuff. Could give you a NPC to have the party turn to for advice. Maybe someone who feels that the next age of chaos should be brought in by human masters and not some humanoid.

 

[Psion]

How about the World Serpent Inn?

Same basic idea as the Inn of the Happy Toad God, which has more flavor and is done up in 3.5, so I think I'll stick with that.

Will you be using the Astral Plane at all? Dungeon has a few good adventures about Githikyani in the Astral.

Maybe at higher levels.

Do you have any of the old Warhammer Realms of Chaos books?

Alas, no.

On your NPC there, with Complete Arcane supposed to be having the Wild Mage return, are you going to revisit him?

Not unless it knocks me socks off. I'm really sort of happy with him the way he is. And when it comes to wild magic, I am really sort of happy with Wild Spellcraft (though his concept isn't a "wild mage". It's more "force of nature", or as the case may be, a manifestation of the unnatural.)

One thing you might want to consider with that NPC, are having him "Spawn". Some of the trolls in the Iron Kingdoms spawn when lost limbs take on a life of their own. Perhaps he can have 'children' that have short, chaotic, and destrutive lives. "Spawn of Ryss..." Yeah, I can see it now.

Heh... that sounds like an interesting concept.

One thing I was dwelling on with Ryss is the idea of chaos being an infectious force, as it is in warhammer. I was thinking about making Ryss the harbinger of this infection. He is not a physical entity in a classical sense... he just appears in various places and starts spreading chaos cults.

Will you have any doomed chaos champions that turn against their master? Heck, it's a classic theme in Elric at least. I know you've read the Slayers d20 book, but have you seen any of the anime?

I sampled the movie and was, shall I say, underwhelmed.

There's a priest (Mysterious Priest Xellos), who works alongside the group who never harms them (actually helps them for a while)is working for the main bad guy and despite that, survives into the next series of the anime. Some pretty interesting stuff. Could give you a NPC to have the party turn to for advice. Maybe someone who feels that the next age of chaos should be brought in by human masters and not some humanoid.

Hmmm... sounds interesting. Do you care to amplify some plot points?

 

[JoeGKushner]

Sure.

In the first Slayers series, Linna is the only one who can cast a Giga Slave. Now this calls upon the Lord of Nightmares who is in effect, the mother of all creation. She discovers that she shouldn't be using this because the spell could in essence, destroy the universe as it could unleash the Lord of Nightmares who in creation, is also chaos. Which made me think of your campaign.

Now in the next series, Slayers Next, they're looking for a book called the Claire Bible. I probably misspelled that so my bad. Anyway, they meet a priest, Xellos, whose also looking for the book. Along the way, the 'monster' race keeps poking it's head in. In long tiems past, the Monster War happened where the Monsters battled to control the universe. Now monster here is just a generic term that coudl easily be replaced by demon lord or demon king. Xellos is so powerful that the gold dragons of this setting fear him.

Anyway, it turns out that they want Linna to cast the Giga Slave again and lose control over it. During the process, Xellos is horribly wounded by one of the Slayers foes whose trying to kill Linna. See, it's important that they keep her alive in order to cast the Giga Slave. Anyway, while Xellos is out, they eventually make Linna cast the spell and it does go array, but doesn't undo the world, rather it makes her the avatar of the Lord of Nightmares and she's in essence, not happy about being worken up and kills the monster lord who summoned her. Sappy ending as Gallry saves her from being taken away by the Lord of Nightmares.

Now this NPC you have here, he could fill a few functions. At one level, due to his shapechanging nature, he could be a great worshipper of something like Slaneesh. That's the chaos god of lust and deprevity. On the other hand, this is a changing being, so it could also be a form of Teezachanetch, the Changer, the lord of magic. With it's levels of sorcerer, that might be a better match. (My spelling on that one is also way off.) Anyway, in Warhammer, there are four themes, war (Khrone), lust (Slanseesh), change/magic (Tezachanech), and plague (Nurgle). Almost like the seven sins. (For which the Dragon magazine article with domains for the seven sins might be helpful.)

If Ryss starts cults, he might not have any control, or even any idea of what happens when he leaves. So if he comes into one sphere and introduces the idea of chaos here, perhaps during the changes brought about, one of the humans, one who has suffered somehow as a result of this change, decides that if the universe is full of chaos, that he will be the one to lead that glorious era to chaos and that all others are just pretenders. Heck, this individual might not even be aware of Ryss and just be leading his own faction of chaos.

Now how does that help the players? Well, if any of the players have mysterious background, they could've originally come from that plane that this NPC comes from and have some knowledge of him. "Man, you've changed." Something to trigger an emotional response where the individual might not be all chaos or all chaotic.

Or heck, have chaos turn it's back on him. It's not like he's serving an actual god or anything.

If you use the sword from the Book of Eldritch Might III that cuts holes into planes, you've given him a quick way to move around.

I'm thinking a priest with domains of something like chaos and war would be appropriate if you're trying to showcase the different aspects of chaos, as Ryss already has the whole changer of ways things going for him.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Here's a few more questions for you.

At what level are the characters in the grand scheme of things? I'm not talking about brute power, but what level of influence will they have on things? Are they just passerbys? Do they know some people? Will have have access to information from a few reliable soruces?

Will you be using templates for any of the characters? If you're talking about chaos being contagious, perhaps some type of template might be appropriate, something that the players have to stop before it spreads. I'm thinking some type of item that's about read to leak chaos and one of the player's has to do the Spock thing and take the hit for the team.

Any planned magic items for the party? When fighting chaos, I keep thinking of a brilliant energy weapon as it's pretty formidable.

 

[Psion]

Now this NPC you have here, he could fill a few functions. At one level, due to his shapechanging nature, he could be a great worshipper of something like Slaneesh. That's the chaos god of lust and deprevity. On the other hand, this is a changing being, so it could also be a form of Teezachanetch, the Changer, the lord of magic. With it's levels of sorcerer, that might be a better match. (My spelling on that one is also way off.) Anyway, in Warhammer, there are four themes, war (Khrone), lust (Slanseesh), change/magic (Tezachanech), and plague (Nurgle). Almost like the seven sins.

That's sort of the thing I was going for, but thanks for putting a finger on the "themes"

But what themes could I use here/where would these elements fit:
The Void (my original concept of a primal evil force that I was using in my cosmology; for examlpe, I once ran a campaign against a Lovecraftian "Great Void Mother". Also concepts used by works like Denizens of Avadnu and Lords of the Night: Vampires/Liches) (entropy? oblivion?)

Magic/Chaos magic (change, maybe)

Chaositech (corruption? "violation of the natural order")

The Dark Plea (madness? or maybe another face of entropy?)

Demons (war? that theme would work well with both Palpatur and D'stradi)

(For which the Dragon magazine article with domains for the seven sins might be helpful.)

That was one of my "best of the Dragon" picks, but I am most intrigued about using it alongside Hordes of Gehenna (which is a different theme than chaos.)

If Ryss starts cults, he might not have any control, or even any idea of what happens when he leaves. So if he comes into one sphere and introduces the idea of chaos here, perhaps during the changes brought about, one of the humans, one who has suffered somehow as a result of this change, decides that if the universe is full of chaos, that he will be the one to lead that glorious era to chaos and that all others are just pretenders. Heck, this individual might not even be aware of Ryss and just be leading his own faction of chaos.

Now how does that help the players? Well, if any of the players have mysterious background, they could've originally come from that plane that this NPC comes from and have some knowledge of him. "Man, you've changed." Something to trigger an emotional response where the individual might not be all chaos or all chaotic.

Now there's some thoughts in there that were intriguing. I thought about having the different chaos factions not exactly getting along (this is chaos, after all), but never helpful in any way. Something I will have to consider.

As an aside, now that you bring Slayers up, it reminds me of one thing I like better in the way they handle things than the D&D default: Templates/chimera/"half-creatures".

 

[JoeGKushner]

The Void (my original concept of a primal evil force that I was using in my cosmology; for examlpe, I once ran a campaign against a Lovecraftian "Great Void Mother". Also concepts used by works like Denizens of Avadnu and Lords of the Night: Vampires/Liches) (entropy? oblivion?)

In such a case, there are a few options. I believe that Dragon had a recent issue with a deity that was kind of a lord of void or lord of nothing. The Darkness or something. Might be a good way to sneak some Dark Stalkers into the campaign as they are attributed, in that article, with worshipping it.

Magic/Chaos magic (change, maybe)

Well, you've already mentioned a fondness for Wildmagic by EN. Complete Arcane is supposed to have some stuff. If you have access to the old Wild Magic regions from the older FR books, you can have some strongholds of Chaos within them where magic on the outside suffers from wild surges.

Chaositech (corruption? "violation of the natural order")

The Dark Plea (madness? or maybe another face of entropy?)

Demons (war? that theme would work well with both Palpatur and D'stradi)

Sounds like you've already got the nail on the head here. The Dark Plea would probably work against the idea of causing the end of the world though unless that's how it is in turn born since it's a future entity working through the past. If you're planning on doing more with dreams and have Wheel of Time or Occult Lore, there might be some good options for dream travel or battles.

The D'stradi are cool and act as perfect engines of war so I agree with that part 100%.

That was one of my "best of the Dragon" picks, but I am most intrigued about using it alongside Hordes of Gehenna (which is a different theme than chaos.)

Well, if you're talking about The Book of Fiends, one thing that might bear though is that one of those daemons is a destroyer of worlds. Perhaps the worshippers of chaos want to unleash it and other 'doom' beasts like the tarrasque and that big sucker from the Monsternomicon. Can't remember it's name right now.

Now there's some thoughts in there that were intriguing. I thought about having the different chaos factions not exactly getting along (this is chaos, after all), but never helpful in any way. Something I will have to consider.

Well, they can be helpful in a few ways. First, they might need something from the party. Perhaps the spellcaster has a unique or rare spell. Just because the NPC in question is a worshipper of chaos doesn't mean that it's stupid. Friendship and slow corruption can be great tools. He could throw them a party and then get them into different fields like drug use or other decadent pleasures.

On the other hand, just because it's an agent of chaos, doesn't mean it's beyond redemption as it may still hold onto a few shreds of it's humanity. "No, anything but that!" It's turned more than one villain into a tragic hero as he turns against his master. Of course this might work better as a romantic subplot as well.

As an aside, now that you bring Slayers up, it reminds me of one thing I like better in the way they handle things than the D&D default: Templates/chimera/"half-creatures".

Well, the main dude, Zelgadias, always had something to adventure for as he was always seeking a way to undo the curse that had been placed on him. This is another example of where an entity of chaos could grant a follower great power, but due to the changes it makes in that character's physical makeup (not human anylonger), the follower turns against the villain, perhaps even working alongside the party. Might be a good backstory for any player who happens to lose a character. "Oh, don't worry about it, I wont' stab you in the back until after we deal with X!"