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D&D 5E Samauri-thief discussion

auburn2

Explorer
Has anyone played a samauri thief? I am talking about levels 1-10. I am thinking Rogue 1, Fighter 1, thief 4, Samaurai 5, thief 5.

After level 10 or so we will be retireing.

What seems to be awesome: free proficiency and bonus action advantage with temp hp.

In looking online people have downplayed the free advantage because Rogues can get "sneak attack every turn" anyway. I kind of disagree for several reasons:

1. first I think Rogues get sneak attack about 50% of the time. Assasins more than that (probably 65%), and swashbucklers a lot more (probably 80%), but Rogues are not going to be getting that every turn. To start with Rogues win initiative a lot. In a party of 4 Rogues will probably go first 40% of the time and usually there is no one close to the enemy the first round to give SA unless they have advantage. Fights rarely last more than 5 rounds. After the first round they get it most of the time, but certainly not all the time, especially against smart enemies. Enemies will put the tanks up front and just take dodge to kill SA while the casters and ranged guys in the back do the damage. With a swashbuckler and probably 15-20 combat rounds between short rests, you are getting it just every turn if you take Samauri and fill in the times you would not get it.

2. Second, advantage is a big deal. Yes Rogues get SA often ..... if they hit ..... but advantage makes it much more likely they will hit. This means they will land more SAs - Advantage attack with SA is MUCH better than normal attack with SA.

3. It lets you SA even when you would otherwise have disadvantage. Enemy is invisible or you are blinded or poisioned, or enemy takes dodge, or at long range - if you have an ally within 5 feet of him, give yourself advantage, even it out and still land your SA if you hit.

Am I wrong? Like I said I have played a lot of Rogues, but not this combo.
 
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Only if that optional feature is in play and only they don’t move on their turn.

I'm assuming it is.

I mean I refute the OP's premise that Rogues don't get sneak attack most turns. I can count the times on one hand I've seen a Rogue not get Sneak attack in over 5 years of 5E weekly play.

  • Bonus action [Hide] attack, done.
  • Have an adjacent ally to your target? Attack, Done.
  • Have no adjacent ally? Bonus action [disengage], move to a target with an adjacent ally (or to a clear space to enable missile weapons, thrown daggers), Attack. Done.
  • Obtain some source of advantage (Familiars, Faerie fire, nearby Wolf barbarians etc). Attack, Done

All the new Aim action has done is add another vector and make it a lot less fiddly for the Rogue to get sneak attack (which they were invariably going to get anyway). I've found it particularly useful with newb Rogue players in that it speeds up their turns considerably.
 




Discussion of Aim is irreverent. It's usually pretty easy to qualify for a sneak attack in 5e without it. Just stand next to another party member. It's mostly intended to help out rogue-archers. In my experience, it's unusual for a 5e rogue not to qualify for sneak attack one way or another.

The real issue so far as the OP is concerned the samurai's Fighting Spirit ability. This gives advantage on every attack in a single round, so the more attacks you can make in that round the better. It is intended to be combined with action surge and extra attack. The OP's build is pushing back action surge to level 7 and extra attack to level 10 in a 10 level game. That is really really going to hurt the character's damage output.
 



auburn2

Explorer
I mean I refute the OP's premise that Rogues don't get sneak attack most turns. I can count the times on one hand I've seen a Rogue not get Sneak attack in over 5 years of 5E weekly play.
That is not my experience. Hide then attack only gives advantage if you can attack without exposing yourself first, which you usually can't do after the first round of combat. You would also have to suceed on hide vs passive perception, which is not automatic.

Also this would presume in 5 years you can count on one hand the number of times you had a Rogue attacking with disadvantage due to being piosioned, attacking in the opponent being invisible, taking dodge etc?

Aim will change this a lot though and would make this Samauri ability largely irrelevant.
 
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That is not my experience. Hide then attack only gives advantage if you can attack from a hidden location, which you usually can't so I can count on about 2 hands the number of times that works after the first round of combat.
You don't need advantage to sneak attack, you just need to have an ally attacking the same target and not have disadvantage. Most rogue subclasses have other ways to get sneak attacks as well. For example a swashbuckler just needs to not fight two enemies at once.
Also this would assume in 5 years you can count on one hand the number of times you had a Rogue attacking with disadvantage due to being poisioned, the opponent being invisible, taking dodge etc?
I don't think I have ever seen a rogue attacking under those conditions.
 


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