Same rules or different Rules (PC vs NPC)

[CAFRedblade]

Both!

Give me a base system for simple NPCs, but make it dovetail well with using NPCs built as if they were PCs.

Create a system of PC, NPC, and Monster.

PC, self explanatory.

Monster, similar to 4e, only good for the kill (with most/all of the same subdivisions currently in use). Does not pre-clude additional abilities from the Fluff, in the way MM's from the later years improved.

NPC, for the in-between, and can be a stripped down/simplified version of a PC. Usefull for creating the BBEG, or BBGG that the PC's can't/won't mess with early on, but can match once they hit similar level or better.

 

[Gort]

Create a system of PC, NPC, and Monster.

PC, self explanatory.

Monster, similar to 4e, only good for the kill (with most/all of the same subdivisions currently in use). Does not pre-clude additional abilities from the Fluff, in the way MM's from the later years improved.

NPC, for the in-between, and can be a stripped down/simplified version of a PC. Usefull for creating the BBEG, or BBGG that the PC's can't/won't mess with early on, but can match once they hit similar level or better.

That seems like the best of all worlds. I want monsters I can just chuck at a party for a quick and dirty combat encounter about 99% of the time, but it'd be nice to build an iconic NPC every once in a while.

 

[mudbunny]

If they do use the same rules, make it clear that there are powers that the NPC/monster can have that the PCs cannot get.

 

[DEFCON 1]

NPC, for the in-between, and can be a stripped down/simplified version of a PC. Usefull for creating the BBEG, or BBGG that the PC's can't/won't mess with early on, but can match once they hit similar level or better.

You already can do this if you really want to. Just create the NPC as a PC or a Companion Character. The rules to do this already exist. There's just nothing in the books that specifically says "Feel free to create your NPCs using the PC or Companion Character rules if you want to."

 

[Fanaelialae]

Create a system of PC, NPC, and Monster.

PC, self explanatory.

Monster, similar to 4e, only good for the kill (with most/all of the same subdivisions currently in use). Does not pre-clude additional abilities from the Fluff, in the way MM's from the later years improved.

NPC, for the in-between, and can be a stripped down/simplified version of a PC. Usefull for creating the BBEG, or BBGG that the PC's can't/won't mess with early on, but can match once they hit similar level or better.

I could get behind that.

I definitely think the basic monsters should be easy to create, and I have no problem with them being different from PCs. I do think they should return to the 2e MM format though, with more focus on ecology than tactics outside the statblock.

 

[Kannik]

One of the major points on both e "Whats wrong with 4e" and the "whats right with 4e" threads is the separation of rules for NPCs and PCs. So lets discuss.

Different, different, different, different, and for the love of grawr, please different.

As a DM, I would like to craft my baddies quickly. It could be the rules such as in Spycraft 2.0, where you get a quick-put-together set of rules to make NPCs, or it could be "just do what you want". Either way, please let me put them together quickly.

As a DM, I would like to craft my baddies (NPCs and monsters alike) for coolness and uniqueness. One of the first 4E games I ran the baddie, on hit, could wrap his chain whip around the character and slam him into his armour spikes for extra damage. Very cool, flavourful, exciting and I didn't have to worry about how to build it.

As a Player, I want cool things to pop out and surprise me, and maybe even inspire me on how to go about doing that myself.

As a game world, I want the participants to be amazed by what happens, and not stop and say "Wait a minute, what mechanic did he use for that? How is that possible?" (which often happened in our 3.X games). 1e style immersion (that has worked well in the current edition).

Provide guidelines to give starting DMs a baseline to match PC's levels, with sidebars about more and less powerful opponents and encounters, but please let them be built on different rules so that the villains can do wild amazing things that have me and my PC grunt and push to the limit to overcome and savour the victory.

peace,

Kannik

 

[kmdietri]

To me it's system vs. presentation.

I'm fine with the npc's being presented as simple stat blocks with less concern for how exactly those stats came to be.

However I do want NPC's built upon the same system so that you don't have dragons who can hardly claw their way out of a wet paper bag because they're NPC's who should do less damage.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think you can have many different options.

The simplest option is just to provide a table for monster attack/defense/damage/hp values, with some guidelines for nudging it.

Oh, you're fighting a level 12 dire donkeyhorse? That's +12 attack bonus, 15 hp, deals 1d8+12 damage per hit, and has an AC of 12. Want it to be especially quick? OK, maybe it's AC is 14.

Everything else is an optional add-on. Habitat/Terrain? Alignment? Super Special Powerz? All nice options to have, but not strictly necessary.

So the Monster Manual would have that handy-dandy chart, and might list several creatures, not by stat blocks, but by fluff/story/flavor info. The difference between a goblin and a bugbear isn't the stats, it's the story.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Exactly this is another place were you can have the options of both. I certainly love the 4E (and Pathfinder Beginner Box) 'all in one place' stat blocks.

 

[Elf Witch]

I want the NPCs to made the same as PCs . Use the same rules but I would like a simpler stat block for combat with more detail in the fluff section. That way I can just use the stat block for simple encounters and have the ability to add more detail if I want.