Sanctum Spell - What's the purpose?

[Wyvernhand]

The other issue with the 24 hour rule is that a caster may not have the opportunity to reprep spells every 24 hours. If an Archmage casts all of his 7th+ level spells but for some reason is unable to rest that night, or the next day, and on into the next night. He's been more than 24 hours since the last time he was able to cast 7th level spells, even though he would otherwise be able to have them.

No, it works. If you don't like it, don't use it, or don't allow it. But don't say it doesn't work. Actually talk to your players and let them know what will and won't be accepted. Just because its printed, doesn't mean you HAVE to allow it. After all, Beholder Mage, Illithid Savant, and Tainted Scholar were all printed as well, yet I have yet to meet a single person who would allow a player to play one. Ever. Even online.

If the devs didn't want early entry to be possible, why did they print so many different ways? Sanctum Spell, Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten, Earth Spell + Heighten, Improved Sigil: Krau, Dragonsblood Pool, and probably a few others I'm not remembering. All basically work in such a way to allow a caster to cast spells of a higher level than he would normally be allowed. If it was a problem after the first one was printed, why did they keep making more? Granted, we can't exactly ask them what their opinion is, but it seems pretty clear that it was more or less intended like this. Heck, they even printed Favored/Primary Contact to allow a character to bypass SKILL REQUIREMENTS, albeit at a very high price (2 feats is very expensive, especially without flaws).

So again, its works. If you don't like it, don't use it. That's fine. But don't go around forcing your houserules on others. All you can do is explain how it works, point out the pros and cons of both sides, and let the reader judge whether to allow it as written, apply their own house rules, or simply not use/allow its use.

 

[Ashtagon]

Well, you could make a dragonsblood pool your sanctum. Let's say, you need 3rd level spells to enter in a prestige class. But you are a sorcerer of lv 4. You make you sanctum, drink of the pool and can cast 3rd lv spells for a full year!

Assuming we are talking about the feat in Tome and Blood, no you can't.

Your sanctum is an area you have previously designated within a 10-foot/level radius from the center. This area can be a particular site, building, or structure.

A dragonsblood pool, one small enough that it could actually be drunk, wouldn't count under that criterion.

Well, if I was the DM, I would allow sanctum spell feat just for sorcerers. I really think sorcerers are weak, but he has a lot of flavor.

But what about the other questions? Can a cone of cold wand be made with sanctum spell?

I'd allow that cone of cold wand to only work within the Sanctum Spell area.

 

[Wyvernhand]

I'd allow the cone of cold wand to only work within the Sanctum Spell area.

Actually, you are relying on the fact that OUTSIDE of your sanctum it is a level lower. Cone of Cold is normally a 5th level spell. You can only put a 4th level or lower in a wand. A Sanctum Cone of Cold is a 6th level spell inside of your sanctum, but a 4th level spell outside. So you would have to craft the wand outside of your sanctum in order for it to even fit.

It would have the save DC of a 4th level spell, and I assume min CL for a 4th level spell (even though its cast from a 5th level slot) since wands are generally at min CL.

 

[Ashtagon]

ok, I didn't quote read it fully.

On second reading, I wouldn't allow it to work at all.

Within the Sanctum Spell area, it's too high a level spell for Craft Wand to interact with it.

Outside the sanctum Spell area, its effective caster level is too low for cone of cold to function.

I think maybe we've been looking at this from the wrong angle.

The various prestige classes have "able to cast level X spells" as prereqs.

A sanctum spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level, modified by any other metamagic feats.

Regardless of the effects that depend on spell level, it still remains its original spell level for purposes of memorisation.

So no wand of cheese, and no prestige class hijinks are possible with this feat at all. A spell with this metamagic attached gets a bonus within the area, and a penalty without. That's all.

 

[Dandu]

I think you're looking at it from the wrong direction.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Sanctum Spell functions EXACTLY like Heighten Spell. It has the same language and everything. The spell is one level higher, spell slot has no bearing on it. If I cast a Sanctum Fireball in my sanctum, it WILL penetrate your Lesser Globe of Invulnerability. why? Because its a 4th level spell in ALL respects. Spell level and slot level are only tangentially linked. After all, you can always use a higher level spell slot to cast a lower level spell. If I'm crafting a Wand of Fireballs, but I'm out of 3rd level spell slots, I can use a 5th level slot to cast that Fireball. It doesn't matter for the wand, though, because the wand only cares about the spell level, not the slot level. A Fireball cast from a 5th level slot is still a 3rd level spell. That's why Heighten Spell exists.

Sanctum Spell functions exactly like a +/- 1 Heighten Spell. If you cast a spell that is level x in your sanctum, its level x+1. If you cast it outside your sanctum, it is level X-1. Slot is irrelevant, only spell level.

 

[Empirate]

fwiw, my normal approach is the "24-hour rule". For continuous abilities, you must have had the ability continuously for 24 hours and continue to have it now; if you lose the ability, you have a 24-hour grace period to recover it. For expendable (Vancian magic, rage, smite, etc.) abilities, you must have had the ability to use it at some point within the last 24 hours.

By this rule, Sanctum Spell would let you qualify, but only if you return to your sanctuary every day.

Imbue with spell ability would also count, but given that loss of your caster (either death of enmity) would see you lose your entire prestige class of features, that is an awful big gamble to take on your character's power. And the cleric would have to gain quite a few levels before the effectively permanent loss of a 4th level spell slot won't be missed.

While this looks like a neat idea at first glance, there are a few cases where the 24 hour rule would punish certain PrCs hard. For example, some PrCs require not only "able to cast X level spells", but add a clause like "..., one of these must be specific spell Y". Still others say something like "..., three of which must be spells of school Z". Would you really deny the benefits of the Loremaster PrC to your player just because his Wizard 7/Loremaster 4 failed to prepare seven different divination spells within the last 24 hour period? Would you deny the benefits of the Mindbender PrC if the PC in question neglected to memorise Charm Person two days in a row? Etc.

 

[Ashtagon]

While this looks like a neat idea at first glance, there are a few cases where the 24 hour rule would punish certain PrCs hard. For example, some PrCs require not only "able to cast X level spells", but add a clause like "..., one of these must be specific spell Y". Still others say something like "..., three of which must be spells of school Z". Would you really deny the benefits of the Loremaster PrC to your player just because his Wizard 7/Loremaster 4 failed to prepare seven different divination spells within the last 24 hour period? Would you deny the benefits of the Mindbender PrC if the PC in question neglected to memorise Charm Person two days in a row? Etc.

Yes. Yes I would. If you're going to play a loremaster, memorise the spells that are typical of those a loremaster would be memorising.

And what kind of a mindbender wouldn't be memorising charm person? To not do so would e incredibly bad RP.

 

[Dandu]

And what kind of a mindbender wouldn't be memorising charm person? To not do so would e incredibly bad RP.

Maybe a situation arises that requires all of his arcane power be put towards Summon: Pancakes?

 

[Wyvernhand]

Mmmm pancakes. Especially with prestidigitated syrup. Mmmm.