SAS D20 -- A disappointed view

[Samurai]

That may be, but my group never plays anywhere with computer access. We typically play at the local pizza shop. So I'd have to print it out anyway, and print out any errata as well. YMMV, but IMO, pdfs are usually amatuerish and just not worth it. The exceptions, like Monte Cook's stuff, will eventually be made into a book and I can buy it then.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I have to disagree here. If anything, this type of quasi-compatibility will lead to the weakening of the d20 market to the point where the d20 logo is worthless as a tool to attract buyers. I just fail to see how customer confusion can, in any way, invigorate the industry.

Why would anyone choose d20 SAS over TriStat SAS?

Aaron

One of my friends didn't know that the Tri Stat book was in full color and was pretty furious when he saw my copy and compared it with his D20 copy. I was more than a little amused. He couldn't use it with Spycraft and got, what he considers, the worse end of the deal. "Hell, if I'm going to play D20, I want to play D20." I sitll laugh.

 

[Samurai]

Well, the Limited Edition tri-stat version sold out weeks ago, and the standard tri-stat version will also be b&w. He'll soon have company with tri-stat latecomers who also have to make do without the glorious color version...

 

[RangerWickett]

That may be, but my group never plays anywhere with computer access. We typically play at the local pizza shop. So I'd have to print it out anyway, and print out any errata as well. YMMV, but IMO, pdfs are usually amatuerish and just not worth it. The exceptions, like Monte Cook's stuff, will eventually be made into a book and I can buy it then.

http://www.enworld.org/d20reviews.asp?sub=yes&where=currentprod&which=d20s There you can read 5 reviews of FCTF, all of which are quite glowing.

Four-Color to Fantasy is currently the #4 ranked D20 product on the reviews page. Admittedly, people are a little generous when it comes to Natural 20 Press products since they support the site, but still, getting ranked that high hardly smacks of amateurism. In both layout and content, I think FCTF is definitely at least on-par with most 3rd-party published products. Actually, I think it's prettier than most, but I am biased, I suppose.

Back to the topic at hand, when will someone post a proper review of SAS? And heck, Guardians of Order, I've managed to convince most of the other Supers-publishers to swap products with me, so if you're interested in sending me a free copy of SASd20, I can send you a copy of FCTF.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well Ryan, I'll tell you what. If Guardians of Order sends me a copy, I'll not only review it, I'll compare it with the tri-stat game.

 

[Samurai]

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_6743.html

There is my review of SAS, and RPG.net has several more as well... just search the review database. Sure, all the reviews are for the tri-stat version, but the 2 games are extremely similar, so all the info about "what's in SAS, and is it any good" is pretty much universal.

That said, I don't own the d20 version and have only glanced at it in the store and heard comments by people on the forums (same forum on GoO's site serves both versions...) It seems to have more editting mistakes than the Tri-stat version because they simply took the tri-stat manuscript and changed the rules parts to d20. Several times, tri-stat numbers and references seemed to have slipped by them... There is a d20 - tri-stat conversion section in the appendix, though, so it is not impossible to figure out on the few occasions it happens.

The game has multiple character classes, but also the option to use one 1 of them if that is prefered (the somewhat generic "Adventurer".) There are no Feats, at least they are not called Feats, but the powers duplicate many of them. Combat Techniques is a power that allows 1 Technique/ level, and many of the abilities match combat Feats. Henchmen and Sidekick replace Leadership. Highly Skilled is a power that duplicates all of the Skill Focus-type Feats, while Heightened Senses, Attack Combat Mastery, Defense Combat Mastery, Enhanced Stat, Massive Damage, Special Defense, Special Movement, Tough, etc also replicate many of the abilities of Feats. The few feats not covered by these powers/ abilities can easily be added with the "Feats" power that GoO posted earlier in this thread.

SAS d20 was made to conform more closely to SAS than D&D. That may bother some people, but the end result means that the supplements will include a bare minimum of wasted space. Instead of requiring a complete seperate page of stats for the d20 version of each character, item, etc (which would make fully half the book useless to players of each game!), only a small 3-line box with stats, attack and defense info, etc) needs to be altered for each character. The powers, skills, and defects boxes, which take up 90% of each character, are usable by players of both versions. Had they not done it this way, there is no way I'd buy a half-useless supplement, and I'm sure the d20 players would feel the same way. If SAS (both versions) wants to sell its dual-statted Rogue's Gallery-type books (which are always the most popular kind of superhero supplement!), it HAD to maintain maximum compatability between the 2 systems or else it would just not work.

I think that those gamers who are willing to give it a try and keep an open mind will be quite pleased with the results.

 

[Samurai]

No offense Ranger, but you are asking them to send you a $40 hardcover book in exchange for a little pdf file? Hell, if they go for that, I'll put out a pdf of my own just to get free games! LOL.

 

[RangerWickett]

No offense Ranger, but you are asking them to send you a $40 hardcover book in exchange for a little pdf file? Hell, if they go for that, I'll put out a pdf of my own just to get free games! LOL.

It was a little tongue in cheek, but hey, it never hurts to ask.

 

[tburdett]

<Expect other publishers to do the same - I fully expect several products to come to market over the next year or two that will go outside the previously accepted norms of the d20 system presentation. Some of them will crash and burn while others will innovate the d20 system scene.>

Any product that puts d20 on the cover and then proceeds to change every convention that consumers have come to expect when they see d20, without advertising that fact, will fail.

d20 is not just a die type in the consumers mind, it is a game design framework. This framework includes levels, feats, skills, and the like. Removing these traits and replacing them with other stuff that you think is 'kewl' will frustrate consumers looking to use your product with OTHER d20 material.

<I won't go into the entire design process involved in SAS d20 because it would take a great deal of time and space but I will say that we put a great deal of thought and effort into the process and would ask that people actually look a little closer before passing judgment on our efforts. You are, however, welcome to disagree as you desire - I stand by what I've said and feel our design experience backs it up.>

Here's the 'design process' as I envision it.

"Man, look at all of those d20 products!"

"Yeah. You thinking what I'm thinking?"

The porting process begins.

 

[Allensh]

I like SAS D20

yeah, it's not terribly compatible with D&D. But when I buy a superhero game, I don't compare it to D&D..I compare it to Champions. SASd20 looks to be faster to play and equally fun to build characters for. My players wouldn't like the Tri-Stat version (even though I do) because they want to be able to roll dice for damage. The "roll a d10 to see if you do 25, 50, 75 or 100% damage" would annoy them. They'll enjoy the d20 version more, and I will get to run a superhero game where fights take less than an hour.

Allen