Savage Species (3.0?) Half-Ogre Race: Balanced?

[Scion]

What low level spell gives size Large, +6 strength, +2 con, and +4 AC?

The enlarge person spell comes pretty close. Alter self nearly finishes the job. Polymorph self does it all. Other spells also do parts as well, but that just overdoes it and makes not taking the halfogre look even better.

You can disagree with the fighter comparison if you want to, but fighter is the benchmark warrior class. And even against a barbarian, he really only loses an iterative attack. Everything else is compensated by stats, AC, and size.

Why is the fighter the benchmark warrior class? why not the barbarian? I think that the barb fits the bill much better. Since the fighter is pretty horrible at just about everything, and not so great in the fighting department as to make the other apsects irrelevant.....

Everything else is not compensated though, it is a huge deficit, as the incredibly large list above shows quite clearly. Check out the list again, perhaps you could run your own comparison?

I have already run them several times in other threads about this topic. Some people feel that a few points of extra damage will overcome any detriment, and I just dont agree. Especially when the detriment is so large.

 

[James McMurray]

Polymorph puts all LA races to shame, and Alter Self isn't exactly available to most barbarians. Enlarge only gives +2 strength. It gives no con, no natural armor, and only lasts a very short while.

Fine, we can ignore the fighter if you want to. What levels is the half-ogre "laughably" weak compared to the barbarian with LA +2?

Higher Natural Armor makes up for loss of hit points and the 1 point difference in DR. Saves are worse, but saves for a barbarian suck anyway, and you'll be needing the party's help to keep from becoming every enemy spellcaster's boytoy whether you're human or half-ogre.

At +1 LA you go from being behind a feat most of the time to being behind a feat 1/3 of the time. Your class ability loss is negligible.

Yes, skill points are lost, but anyone wanting to play a half-ogre (or any -2 int race) obviously doesn't care about skill points, so they become almost a nonissue for comparison.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Nyarlathotep, +3 is LUDICROUSLY overpriced. Full OGRES only get a +2 (and 4 giant Hit Dice).

Full Ogres would be minimum Effective Character Level 6 (4 racial Hit Dice + 2 Level Adjustment + any class levels). Ogre Barbarian 1 would be a level 7 character.

To me +3 doesn't seem too bad at all. A Half-ogre Barbarian 1 would be a level 4 character, just slightly better than half of the Ogre Barb1 .

The size advantage is definately worth +1 (Reach, increased base weapon damage - sure there is a -1 AC and attack penalty but it's well worth it).

The unbalanced attribute bonus is worth another +1, especially since Str and Con are boosted. You'd never take a half-ogre to be a sorcerer or wizard so this plays to the benefit of fighting classes - or even a cleric.

The last +1 comes from all the other racial benefits. I'm of the opinion that the +4 natural armor should be worth +1 by itself, as most (if not all) natural armor buffs are now enhancement bonuses. Darkvision is valuable to everyone. Giant blood can be both a bonus and a liability.

Also, half-ogres cannot be feral. That template only applies to humanoids and monstrous humanoids, not giants.

I made half-ogres "humanoids (giant)" in my game because of a similar issue. If you make the half-ogre a giant type they also gain resistances to a great many spells (those that apply to humanoids only - and there are a great many of those, which nulifies the disadvantage of a half-ogre fighting type... Will saves).

IMC the half-ogre is way too overpowered at just +1 LA. +2 would be the equivalent to a Githzerai and there are some parallels there. Both have large bonuses to their best attributes - STR/CON for half-ogre, WIS/DEX for githzerai - big boosts to the "prime requisites" of their favored classes. Now add the benefits or reach, the improved weapon damage, and a +4 natural armor bonus. I think +3 is just about right, but YMMV .

Edited: To hide my tendancy to post before proof-reading to make sure I have completed all my sentances.

 

[Spatula]

Githzerai gets a bunch of spell-like abilities IIRC which makes up the difference. I'd say the half-ogre is balanced at +2 if you're not adding any racial dice.

 

[Darklone]

I'm with Pax rule for 2 racial giant HD and LA +1.

The half-ogres are still sweeping the dance floor in no time compared to half-orc or human barbarians.

 

[Tyrol]

Thanks for all the input, everyone

I personally think making the LA +2, OR adding 2 racial hitdice would both be effective ways to balance it. Unfortunately, I am not the DM of the campaign where it is a concern.

Here's the story: My D&D group is preparing to start a new campaign. One of the PCs has been planning on being a Frenzied Berserker and now wants to be a half-ogre. The DM of this particular campaign has been deciding whether to allow the Half-Ogre as presented in Savages Species or not (and it had seemed like he was going to allow it). As the only other melee class in the group, a Half-Ogre Frenzied Berserker (at only LA +1) scares the crap out of me! (Because I am most likely to be the closest to him in proximity when a battle ends). So that's why I made this post, to help the DM figure out if the Half-Ogre was balanced or not before I go SPLAT.

 

[Darklone]

Always carry an invisibility potion with you.

Ask the DM to turn the PC into a half-ogre/half-dragon.

 

[Pax]

The real problem here is a PC Frenzied Berserker. That is NOT a good idea.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

I'm playing a half-ogre in a bastardized 3.0/3.5 game. I'm just on par with everyone else at a +2 LA.

I agree that it's definitely not a +1, but a half-ogre is definitely not a +3. Just look at how much cooler the half-dragon is.

 

[glass]

I made half-ogres "humanoids (giant)" in my game because of a similar issue...

Plus it avoids them being listed as Large Giant, when they are in fact pretty much the smallest kind of giant!


glass.