Save on a...10?

[Uller]

Anyone have any insight on why the game designers chose 10 on a d20 to save? Last night one of my players cast command and commanded a monster into a pit...the target rolled its save and rolled a 10. I announced he saved because them's the rulls. The player immediately said "he saves on a 10? There's a 55% chance to save?"

I've not been a fan of this...after all, when something _fails_ its save, something cool is usually happening, besides, shouldn't it usually be a 50/50 chance absent any bonuses or penalties?

...So I took the opportunity and said "You're right...from now on you need an 11 to save..." The following round, another monster bull rushed that player's PC, pushed him into the pit and for his save he rolled a...10...

I was pleased. For his part, so was the player.

Thoughts?

 

[Locutus Zero]

I can see two reasons: 1) "save on a 10" sticks in the mind better than "save on 11". D&D likes its numbers, when not based on an ability, to be 1, 2, or a multiple of 5. 2) Statuses on players often aren't fun. Failing a daze save once creates a reasonable challenge to overcome, failing it 3 times is just unfun.

 

[Kzach]

Thoughts?

Because that's what the system is balanced around.

Anything with a save effect on it is usually very powerful. There are entire builds based around reducing saves to the point where WotC had to nerf an entire wizard build because people were complaining so much about how combats became trivial when the wizard was stunlocking the solo and all his elites and standards and... you get the picture.

Mess with the system all you want, but expect there to be consequences.

 

[AeroDm]

The difference between 10 and 11 probably won't rock your game. To be sure, it'll come up from time to time but I imagine it will be largely the same play experience. If the 10 bothered you and you don't mind 11, go with 11. Personally, I'd stick with 10 as a player and DM for the both of the reasons Locutus Zero pointed out.

 

[S'mon]

This particular case is one where DM judgement ("fiat" to its detractors) is appropriate - you should have described the enemy teetering on the edge of the pit, but then a chunk of masonry breaks off & in he goes!

 

[keterys]

10 vs 11 won't break your game. It's mostly a difference in ease of use... you make a save if you've got two digits on your die. Moving right along.

(I asked this question back in the days of 4e development, myself, so you're not alone

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Yeah, it's just because 10 is marginally easier to remember than 11. Changing it by 5% won't make or break anything.

 

[jimmifett]

Never let players see the DM's rolls. If it is the difference between something meh and something cool in how you describe it, through a +/-1 situational modifier at that save attempt and the players will be none the wiser.

 

[Uller]

Never let players see the DM's rolls. If it is the difference between something meh and something cool in how you describe it, through a +/-1 situational modifier at that save attempt and the players will be none the wiser.

I disagree. I've been DMing for 30+ years (good lord I'm getting old!)...I mix it up. Sometimes I roll behind the screen to keep things mysterious ("why is the DM rolling his d20 over and over?"). Sometimes I roll in direct view...especially when something large is on the line. It is way more dramatic when the players know they are live without a net...

This was a case where I rolled it in public so the players would know that if the bad guy saved he did so legit...most saves I roll in view.

I think I'll stick with the 11+ to save for now and see how it goes.

 

[MortalPlague]

Never let players see the DM's rolls. If it is the difference between something meh and something cool in how you describe it, through a +/-1 situational modifier at that save attempt and the players will be none the wiser.

I also disagree with this sentiment. As a DM, I like my players to know that I'm not pulling punches when the bad guys have a string of bad dice luck. Nor am I gunning for them unfairly when the dice get hot. The whole point of using dice is to determine things randomly, and I don't want my players to think I'm fudging for or against them.

As a player, I feel the same way. I detest when a DM fudges things so the party can survive (especially if it's their own fault).