Save the Kingdom! - Tactics advice needed (badly)

[Maudlin]

Hi,

Last week I participated in a 3-day fantasy wargame LARP (700+ people), and just like the last time we -the noble Kingdom of the Lily- got our arses handed to us rather horribly by the depraved and heretical League of Thistles (chhhk-ptooie).

Now, we usually manage to hold more than our own in skirmish combat, where it's 15 vs 20 or so, but at the end of the weekend when all factions meet on the naked battlefield, those guys are solidly indestructible. I thought maybe some of the armchair generals on this board could share some of their strategic insight on how we can do better next time...

I'll try to outline our problems:

* Their shieldwall. This is a monster and a legend. Apparently, it hasn't broken even once in 10 years. Their entire first rank (which is a good 20m longer than ours, as they outnumber us by about 75 people, 225 to 150) carries tower shields in very close formation. 2nd rank are poleweapons, 3rd are wizards and archers. Ours is similar, but they are far more experienced and disciplined in this.

* This brings with it the next problem... they apply enough pressure that their ranks can continually advance. That means whenever we cut someone down, they can be dragged back to their high-level healers in the rear and be back up on his feet a few moments later. When they cut someone down, more often than not they can reach him and take his 'dreamthread' (=dead). If we want to win, we HAVE to stop them from doing this.

* Excellent communication. They really do move as one unit, which is a scary sight considering their number. We are often unable to react properly if their ranks suddenly shift.

* Magical power. Because of their large number, their resources are more plentiful as well. They have several archmages and high priests, who can perform feats of healing and spells we can't.

We've had some modest successes with

* Our slightly larger amount of archers,
* Sending quick, lightly armoured skirmishers around their flanks in groups of 3-4,
* Siege weapons! Our engineers are far better, and shields don't help => We have 2 ballista's, a catapult and a trebuchet, while they only had 1 catapult.
* Casting Terror on 2-3 people in their shield wall simultaneously (they run away for 15 secs),
* Sending wizards with a version of Sanctuary to stand in front of their shieldwall, so they have to stop or move around,
* Nightly raids on their encampment every 3 hours, to lower morale
* Alliances with the other factions. We served cheap beer all weekend

I'd be very grateful for any maneuvers, tricks, axioms and advice you could come up with. If you were our embattled Baron Bonvoisin, what would you do? How did medieval armies manage? Know any sites? Thanks.

Since I just advanced to the next Circle in the Guild of Silence (which doesn't exist), I think I'm going to try prowling around their healer line next time, before I join ranks. Try healing a knife in your back, Thistle! (chhhk-ptooie)

 

[ReignofGeekaos]

Hope this helps.

Flank, Flank, Flank, Flank, Flank. Shield walls are a bitch to break so smash them in the Flanks again, and again, and while there dealing with a large group of people smashing into their flanks sends a larger group into their front, basically you should split their focus three ways, hard to be organized if your fighting on three fronts, and while your flanking have those archers, and siege weapons hurtling at them, hard to manuver when your trying to keep an arrow from punching into your body.

Another possiable idea is if their weak fleshy allies are in the back smash them, try to circle around them and smash into them from behind, try to encircle them really.

Cut off thier supply lines, and this is very importent if their well feed they fight better, if their ill supplied there not going to be able to fight as hard.

The Night raids, keep them up, but target their stores, burn their food, and supplies, startle their horse, use fire to your advantage, hell attack them in force at night if you have to when their asleep.

Use those archers, if their using cloth tents have your archer shoot flaming arrows into them, have those tent catch fire, and the like, hell a few well shot fireballs will do wonders.

Got any flyers? Cause if so attack them from above, fire arrows down on them, hopefully your flyers are too fast to be shot down.

Hope those ideas help some.

 

[Maudlin]

Thanks for the tips!

I suspect we'll have to work out a way to approach from several sides without getting routed, that way if they advance, their rear guard will be retreating. What you said

Incidentally, this IS being fought by real people (LARP = Live Action RPG), so no flyers or horses, and we're not allowed to set anyone on fire

 

[ReignofGeekaos]

Oh hell forgot a good one, Fake retreat, you send one large unit into the their wall, then feign a retreat and as the wall breaks you counter charge them from the sides, or from the front, it's a good trick but you need to be careful, try to make them them thinking your commiting to the one rush, then pretend to break, and high tail it out of there leading them into the counter charge.

 

[Drakmar]

longer pikes.

set up a porcupine in the middle... just make sure.. your first ranks pikes can get to the baddies before their polearms can reach you.

as big a group as you can manage..

and have a bunck of archers sit behind your main body. as well as your siege group..

and have two fast running groups that can run around both sides.

and make the runners a combo group of about 4 archers..and 4 melee.

you are losing.. because you are letting them control the battle field.. think of their greatest strength as their weakness.. you say that their shield wall hasn't fallen in 10 years?.. fine.. don't try and break it.. they are obviously fanatical by now about that.. so.. just make it not matter to the way you fight them.. go around it. more mobility is your friend.. wipe out their command group..or their heros...take out their healers with a fast moving skirmish.. just make sure it is made up of some of your best warriors..who are also really good at running.

my two cents worth.. enjoy..

 

[sword-dancer]

Hi,


Since I just advanced to the next Circle in the Guild of Silence (which doesn't exist), I think I'm going to try prowling around their healer line next time, before I join ranks. Try healing a knife in your back, Thistle! (chhhk-ptooie)

* Their shieldwall. This is a monster and a legend. Apparently, it hasn't broken even once in 10 years. Their entire first rank (which is a good 20m longer than ours, as they outnumber us by about 75 people, 225 to 150) carries tower shields in very close formation. 2nd rank are poleweapons, 3rd are wizards and archers. Ours is similar, but they are far more experienced and disciplined in this.

If I understand your description right this isn`t a shieldwall but a Phalanx or battleline.
If they are as deep as your side and outflank you for 20 m, don`t try a phalanx yourselves, it´s begging for disaster, i bet they flank you in .
Form a compact deept unit( a block or wedge) and try to smash to their lines, if you have broken their formation use one end of your Formation as anchor and use the good old gate maneuver, whirl the formation over the field and mob the earth with the broken ranks.
Ort the better idea try this with the larger part of your force and then use the better part to got at their right flank to roll them off.

Sending quick, lightly armoured skirmishers around their flanks in groups of 3-4,

Forget it, it`s not worth the effor their backline could handle them with ease.

* Siege weapons! Our engineers are far better, and shields don't help => We have 2 ballista's, a catapult and a trebuchet, while they only had 1 catapult.

I doubt hevily they are worth it when the main thing is mellee.
How many effective shots did they have and how long such a battle takes?

Another possibilitie if your archer are superior and your magic could hold your own against thiers is to form a shieldwall, form a circle on the field heavy guys outside and light inside, let your archers rain a hail of death and defend the circle to your lastbreath, you had a chance to hold but only if youre are not outgunned, if they have superior or at least equal firepower it could be a death trap. Ä'If not you had at least a glorious and honorable battle.
And destroy their ballistas before you try this.

Combine those ttactics with the casting of sanctuary( Shieldwall), fear( deepunit) and a concentrated archer fire, `try to get one part down, don`t concentrate on enemy arcghers itisn`t usually worth it, but the hail of death could bring the formation in disorder.

Oh and train, train and then train again.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Are these real battles, like the SCA, or are you using mechanics? Basicly, how willing are you to get bruised, and do you have anyone in really good physical condition?

 

[Maudlin]

Great stuff!

If we could pull off the gate maneuver (spearheaded by Terrors and siege fire, possibly), combined with 2 sizeable groups flanking them, that would be great. They'd have to split their shields 6 ways to cover all sides and be unable to move forward...

Thing is, the siege weapons really are extremely useful as formation busters, since they punch through armor, shields and magical protection alike. Ammo is not a limiting factor, and we can fire them about 2-3 times a minute (they're not to scale, thankfully). That's how we managed to execute their leader, incidentally... An ancient Dark Elf up to his eyebrows in magic; we made him chase us down a narrow lane where we had set up our siege batteries... He still managed to kill about dozen of us, but then he got 2 ballista bolts in his gut for his trouble, and by the end of the day his head was hanging from our tower. He WON'T be bothering us next year

The thing with forming a 'wagon circle' is that our ability to heal our wounded, let alone finish THEIR wounded becomes nihil. Basically they would have total control of the battlefield. That could work in real life toe-to-toe, but in this case would be rather gruesome. It could work to give them a target though, if we want to maneuver around them. Everyone's advice to not play into their strengths was probably wisest.

And Jondor, they're real as in you hit people, and skillful fighters do better, but you're not allowed to use violence or act in a reckless manner. Did you have something in mind?

Oh, and we're GOING to train, this time. Amazing thing, injured pride

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

Remember the Romans

The phalanx of Macedonia was beaten by the Romans - their techniques may work for you.

1. the phalanx tactic needs relatively even ground to work. Your enemy are a solid mass - break that mass up. Put them on uneven ground, try to choose your battlefield. When they're on uneven ground (lots of rocks or dips or rises) it's very much harder to maintain your frontline.

If you can't choose your field, then control the field. On the night before, sew their side of the field with hazards - rocks, pits, caltrops, pitch or oil that can be set alight.

The purpose of this is to break up that line, make holes in their invincible frontage. Accentuate these problems with magic use and siege engines.

2. Be ready to exploit those holes once they are created. Organise your forces in small, tight groups with large shields and close combat weapons, swords preferably. These groups have to use the holes in the line to get in close to the first line. The large shields are to protect you against the second line and their pole weapons. Once these groups get close, they have to push always into the enemy line, forcing the holes further open and looking to join up with the other groups of their own side. At all times, work to prevent the holes from closing up.

This means that the most important part of the tactic for your side is to close the distance as quickly as possible, to exploit the holes when they occur. If this tactic works, it should break their line, though it could be close going.

You say that they've been using this tactic for ten years - they are ripe for Sun Tzu's greatest principle, that every battle is won or lost before it is ever fought. Lots of battles in history were won by the side that planned for their enemy's special tactics, not by the strongest side or the best fighters.

I hope this opens up some possibilities for you.