Saving against daze in the "middle" of your turn

[Al'Kelhar]

Hi guys,

I'm after a bit of the good ol' ENWorld wisdom.

The White Well hexblade in our campaign has the Starfire Womb feat (not surprisingly. Its benefit is as follows:

"When you deal damage with a power that has the radiant or fear keyword, immediately roll a saving throw to relieve a condition of your choice from which you are suffering."

Frequently, while the hexblade is dazed, she deals radiant damage, and makes a save to end the dazed effect. So, she has taken her one action while dazed (standard action to attack something) and then made her save against the dazed effect "immediately".

Question:

Does the hexblade then get the "balance" of her actions for her turn (move and minor)? Or since she was dazed at the start of her turn, she only gets her one action and then makes the save (just as if she had saved against the dazed effect at the end of her turn)?

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Xethreau]

The Dazed condition says "You can take either a standard action, a move action, or a minor action on your turn (you can also take free actions)." To me, the "on your turn" business seems to me to imply that the check to trigger the end of the turn is after the resolution of the action. Since the saving throw would be part of the action resolution, I would probably say that the hexblade would continue its turn, becoming undazed with the aid of the Lady of the White Well's guidance, earning enough time to move and adjust with new clarity.

Of course, it is up to the DM, really. If DM says "WTF, no," then noes goes.

 

[Trit One-Ear]

I'd agree with [MENTION=57584]RyukenAngel[/MENTION], though his wording confuses me a little

I'd say as soon as the condition was lifted, the player no longer suffers the effect. Take the Marked condition for example. There are lots of powers that say "if you use this while you are marked, you are no longer marked." This allows players to then attack other creatures without suffering the marked penalty.

Much in the same way, the Dazed condition stops affecting the player when the condition is lifted. This means the player had to take the standard action to attack (dealing the radiant damage) before taking their move or minor, which can still be pretty limiting.

But again, ultimately up to the DM. That's just my 2 copper.

Trit

 

[Balesir]

Hmm - this is the way we have played it, and I like [MENTION=57584]RyukenAngel[/MENTION]'s line of logic. Maybe, in the "post-4E fan-generated errata", the "Dazed" condition should read:

"If you complete a Standard, a Move or a Minor action while you are Dazed, you move immediately to the end of your turn without taking any more actions."

That would cover the other "odd" case we occasionally see, when a creature is Dazed in the middle of its own turn.

 

[Ferghis]

I too agree with RyukenAngel. In addition to his points, I would argue that denial-of-action attacks are annoying enough that any opportunity to relieve characters of such effects should be embraced. That might just be me.

 

[Obryn]

The comparable case is with Slow. If you are Slowed in the middle of your move, and you've already moved at least 2, your move stops.

Likewise with Daze, if you get dazed on your turn and you've already taken 1+ actions, you're done.

I'd argue it works the other way just as well!

-O

 

[Radiating Gnome]

I believe that if you manage to recover thanks to an action you regain the actions you would not be able to take if you were still dazed.

I believe I've seen that addressed before, and that's the party line.

-rg

 

[Ferghis]

The comparable case is with Slow. If you are Slowed in the middle of your move, and you've already moved at least 2, your move stops.

Likewise with Daze, if you get dazed on your turn and you've already taken 1+ actions, you're done.

I'd argue it works the other way just as well!

I'd xp you if I could. This, very much this.

 

[fba827]

The comparable case is with Slow. If you are Slowed in the middle of your move, and you've already moved at least 2, your move stops.

Likewise with Daze, if you get dazed on your turn and you've already taken 1+ actions, you're done.

I'd argue it works the other way just as well!

-O

This what I was going to say... slow is another 'negative condition' so it makes an appropriate comparison (so you don't get the 'left over balance of actions'... turn is done). and that's how i'd handle it at my table if I were DMing and asked that question.

 

[the Jester]

I have always looked at it like this:

If you are dazed and you take a standard action and then someone gives you a save to shed the dazed condition (which you succeed at), you are no longer dazed. While you are dazed, you can take only one action on your turn, but your turn is not over yet and you are no longer dazed. Ergo, you can take your remaining actions.

Likewise, with slowed- and note that I house rule slowed to make it "you can only move 2 squares on your turn"- let's say you are slowed and take your standard action, then receive a saving throw that you succeed at to throw the slowed condition off. If you move, you aren't slowed anymore, so you can move your full speed.

If you walk while slowed, and get a save while in the middle of your movement, then I'll let you complete that movement at full speed. If you complete your movement before the slow ends, you can use your standard action to move again at full speed, but that first move action is used up.