Flyspeck23
First Post
Not you, obviouslyjasper said:
I'd miss the OT stuff. Not the super bowl, mind you.
Saving EnWorld Brainstorm (long-term less-technical discussion)
- Thread starter Graf
- Start date
I'd miss the OT stuff. Not the super bowl, mind you.
The Sigil
Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
FWIW, I think there are three schools of thought as to "when I send money to ENWorld, what kind of transaction is it?"
1.) There are those who think it is a gift. A gift ought to be freely given by the giver with no "strings attached" - else it is not truly a gift, but rather an investment/contract. When I get $X for my birthday from my parents, they don't make me hand them an accounting ledger to tell them where that money goes.
2.) There are those who think it is a "payment for services rendered/to be rendered" - i.e., "ENWorld provides me news/forums/etc. and I pay them for that service." Again, you have no right to demand an accounting of where the money goes - no more than you demand to see your dentist's or plumber's financial statements to see exactly what he did with the check you sent him.
3.) There are those who think it is an "investment/contract" - i.e., "I am giving money with strings attached - you must use it as I see fit or at the least account to me what you have done with it."
To be honest, I think the only reason people are seeing it as #3 is the huge AGGREGATE amount of donations received, and not the comparatively minor contribution they personally made. To be honest, it's kind of offensive to me. Suppose Morrus had only needed $20 and you tossed that into the pot... would you demand to know exactly where that $20 went? No... because it's "just $20."
I know, I know... $16K is a LOT more than $20 - but... the only difference here is a difference in scale of donators, not so much the size of the individual donation... you still tossed only your $20 or $35 or $50 or whatever into the pot... but since a lot of people also did that, the pot looks a lot fuller.
As far as I'm concerned, Morrus went out and asked for donations. He didn't offer you a business relationship or an investment opportunity. Some of us gave "gifts." Some of us decided we should "pay for services rendered." Some few of us got the mistaken impression that this was an investment opportunity - a time to "buy shares" of ENWorld.
Basically, let's put this into a hypothetical here...
Suppose ENWorld had raised $2000 - just enough to cover back hosting fees and hosting for one more month. IOW, you knew he needed $2000 and he raised $2000. Be honest with me... would you be beating down his door looking for accounting statements? I'll bet the answer is "no." The only reason you're looking for accounting statements is because you see, "wow, Morrus has an extra $14,000 to play with."
If it helps you sleep/feel heroic, just assume that that your contribution is in that first $2,000 and you have NOTHING to do with that extra $14,000. While I will be the first to say that I'm sure there's room for improvement in the financial management at ENWorld (show me a business/family/person/whatever that CAN'T be improved in that aspect), I don't think "Quarterly Reports" are the answer.
I think we ought to look at this as a business of which we are CUSTOMERS, not SHAREHOLDERS and the "price" that we are charged is, "whatever you feel is appropriate for services rendered." ENWorld provides news, reviews, entertainment, community, story hours, whatever. THAT is what you get out of your money.
I think the reason Morrus was able to raise so much so quickly is that he has demonstrated that, for the most part, he is trying to do the right thing and has the best interest of the site in mind. I don't demand perfection, merely that he's trying his best. If the latest blob of money is mismanaged or otherwise misused, eventually that trust/goodwill will evaporate and ENWorld will not be able to have another drive of this magnitude. Morrus knows this and I doubt he'll fritter the money away. After all, if we have another episode like this in 3 months, the reaction will not be "Save ENWORLD!" but rather, "what the h--- did you do with all that money, dude? If you couldn't manage that, why should we give you more?"
I'm rambling, but my point is:
I think a lot of people are only looking at the magnitude of money raised when they say they want more accountability, and that magnitude is the ONLY reason we're hearing the griping - and that annoys me because people are getting an over-inflated sense of self. {Sarcasm} After all, your contribution was not the one that put ENWorld into the black. Mine was. {/sarcasm} It was EVERYBODY and NOBODY that did it... everybody in that they all helped a little, nobody in that no one contributor could have done it alone (though I suspect one could have come close).
I'm gonna consider my payment to ENWorld a very late payment for services rendered and/or gift. Since I never got a piece of stock back, I don't consider it "buying a share" - and I hope you don't either.
--The Sigil
1.) There are those who think it is a gift. A gift ought to be freely given by the giver with no "strings attached" - else it is not truly a gift, but rather an investment/contract. When I get $X for my birthday from my parents, they don't make me hand them an accounting ledger to tell them where that money goes.
2.) There are those who think it is a "payment for services rendered/to be rendered" - i.e., "ENWorld provides me news/forums/etc. and I pay them for that service." Again, you have no right to demand an accounting of where the money goes - no more than you demand to see your dentist's or plumber's financial statements to see exactly what he did with the check you sent him.
3.) There are those who think it is an "investment/contract" - i.e., "I am giving money with strings attached - you must use it as I see fit or at the least account to me what you have done with it."
To be honest, I think the only reason people are seeing it as #3 is the huge AGGREGATE amount of donations received, and not the comparatively minor contribution they personally made. To be honest, it's kind of offensive to me. Suppose Morrus had only needed $20 and you tossed that into the pot... would you demand to know exactly where that $20 went? No... because it's "just $20."
I know, I know... $16K is a LOT more than $20 - but... the only difference here is a difference in scale of donators, not so much the size of the individual donation... you still tossed only your $20 or $35 or $50 or whatever into the pot... but since a lot of people also did that, the pot looks a lot fuller.
As far as I'm concerned, Morrus went out and asked for donations. He didn't offer you a business relationship or an investment opportunity. Some of us gave "gifts." Some of us decided we should "pay for services rendered." Some few of us got the mistaken impression that this was an investment opportunity - a time to "buy shares" of ENWorld.
Basically, let's put this into a hypothetical here...
Suppose ENWorld had raised $2000 - just enough to cover back hosting fees and hosting for one more month. IOW, you knew he needed $2000 and he raised $2000. Be honest with me... would you be beating down his door looking for accounting statements? I'll bet the answer is "no." The only reason you're looking for accounting statements is because you see, "wow, Morrus has an extra $14,000 to play with."
If it helps you sleep/feel heroic, just assume that that your contribution is in that first $2,000 and you have NOTHING to do with that extra $14,000. While I will be the first to say that I'm sure there's room for improvement in the financial management at ENWorld (show me a business/family/person/whatever that CAN'T be improved in that aspect), I don't think "Quarterly Reports" are the answer.
I think we ought to look at this as a business of which we are CUSTOMERS, not SHAREHOLDERS and the "price" that we are charged is, "whatever you feel is appropriate for services rendered." ENWorld provides news, reviews, entertainment, community, story hours, whatever. THAT is what you get out of your money.
I think the reason Morrus was able to raise so much so quickly is that he has demonstrated that, for the most part, he is trying to do the right thing and has the best interest of the site in mind. I don't demand perfection, merely that he's trying his best. If the latest blob of money is mismanaged or otherwise misused, eventually that trust/goodwill will evaporate and ENWorld will not be able to have another drive of this magnitude. Morrus knows this and I doubt he'll fritter the money away. After all, if we have another episode like this in 3 months, the reaction will not be "Save ENWORLD!" but rather, "what the h--- did you do with all that money, dude? If you couldn't manage that, why should we give you more?"
I'm rambling, but my point is:
I think a lot of people are only looking at the magnitude of money raised when they say they want more accountability, and that magnitude is the ONLY reason we're hearing the griping - and that annoys me because people are getting an over-inflated sense of self. {Sarcasm} After all, your contribution was not the one that put ENWorld into the black. Mine was. {/sarcasm} It was EVERYBODY and NOBODY that did it... everybody in that they all helped a little, nobody in that no one contributor could have done it alone (though I suspect one could have come close).
I'm gonna consider my payment to ENWorld a very late payment for services rendered and/or gift. Since I never got a piece of stock back, I don't consider it "buying a share" - and I hope you don't either.
--The Sigil
BSF
Explorer
The Sigil said:
I consider mine as payment for past services rendered. I've been lagging in getting a community supporte account.
I don't consider myself as buying into anything. But, if there is a way that I can help keep the wheels running smoothly, I want to help out. I contribute a few posts to this community, but I don't think I put in nearly as much as I get out. And that's fine. By the nature of a community, the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Rather, it should be. I'm not sure Morrus is getting back as much enjoyment as he puts in effort. That is the issue that I think needs correcting.
From all indications, more than 400 people contributed to the last minute fund. If we could get that amount of response twice a year at $10 a person average, we would cover hosting fees. There would also be a bit extra for whatever else.
To me, that seems attainable. But, there is the issue of actually doing it. Or doing something to keep Community Supporter fees rolling in. $35 each for 150 people a year would cover hosting fees with a little left over. It makes me embarassed that I didn't contribute sooner. How many other combinations can we come up with that would cover hosting fees? Of course, I am sure all of us would like to have a faster system hosting the site. Periodic upgrades to keep things running smoothly aren't too expensive, but they also don't materialize out of nowhere.
And that's what I am talking about. How many ways can we think of that will cover these costs and make us a self-supporting community? While my contribution is for past services rendered, and possibly for future services, I am much more interested in how I can help prevent this happening again further down the road. I don't want to second guess Morrus, but I do want to offer ideas and possibly some of my time.
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