Saving the multiverse from the bane of the d20 System

[takyris]

So this isn't QUITE a House Rules-worthy thread.

Whenver people want to attack d20, they always attack the same tired old formula. Sing it with me:

100 foot cliff. 35 points damage on average. 28 points damage with Jump and Tumble.

Has anyone come up with a system that meets the following requirements?

A short fall must be survivable by a commoner

An adult commoner (say, Com3, 10 hit points) can be killed by a 10 foot fall if they've gotten hurt earlier in the day, but can also sometimes survive (albeit with broken bones) falls up to 30 feet.

A mid-level fall should be threatening but not instantly deadly

If you take falls of 50-75 feet, you should be fearing for your life if you're less than 10th level as a d6 adventuring class with a good Con. Having a ninth-level rogue with a Con of 12 yields an average of 9+8d6+9 = 18 + 28, or 46 hit points. A fall of 60 feet should average somewhere in the high 30's and have 45 easily achievable in the bell curve.

A long-distance fall should be extremely deadly to any character

Characters without magic or a deity owing them a favor should not consider jumping off a hundred-foot cliff to be a viable option. Survival of such an event should be worthy of awe and respect.

Is this handle-able with the d20 mechanic? Should I keep the straight d6/10 feet mechanic but add an automatic Fort save with a DC of 10+1/10 feet fallen for falls of 30' or more?

Critiques, counterideas, vicious attacks?

-Tacky

 

[EricNoah]

Two options, both are "d20 ready".

1) Use the Massive Damage rule (50+ points of damage from a single source = Fort save or die)

2) Use the D20 Modern rule (I'm not clear on this one, but I think it's something like if you take more than your CON in hp damage from a single source, you immediately drop to -1 hp and begin dying). Or is there a save, I'm not sure on this.

So two pretty different levels of lethality for you to choose from.

 

[jgbrowning]

i think the main beef here is that HP are representational numbers of a persons combat ability.

HP's taken out of combat are silly. A guy gets pushed off a 30 ft cliff has a good chance off dying, even if he is in ultimate shape. If not he'll sure be wounded, probably non-mobile.

just do this about falling damage, which is what i do in my campaign.

i just make what i want to happen happen! I don't worry about rules. I've also done the same thing with drowning and all the other stuff i dont care for the rules provided.

in my world, if you're holding a scroll and you get hit by a fireball, there's no scroll left i dont care what the game says about items taking no damage if they're being held , but if theyre on the ground they dont.

joe b.

 

[Enkhidu]

Here's one - use wound and vitality points, and make falling damage go directly to wound points. Keep the standard d6 per 10 feet fallen and you're just about done.

 

[Nightfall]

I never understood WHY people want realism THAT badly. Sure it's nice when characters ACT realistically, and magic has some realistic LIMITS. But come on. If people HATE d20 that much, no sense in trying to change their opinions. Gamers are almost as bad as fundementalist when it comes to stuff they believe in. Changing their minds...I'd rather try converting Slitheren.

 

[Jarval]

2) Use the D20 Modern rule (I'm not clear on this one, but I think it's something like if you take more than your CON in hp damage from a single source, you immediately drop to -1 hp and begin dying). Or is there a save, I'm not sure on this.

IIRC you get a Fort save at DC 15 to avoid the drop to -1.

 

[Capellan]

I've always seen D&D as striving to achieve an "action movie" feel. Characters are larger than life and considered to be fully capable of any action right up until the point they drop. (think of the Die Hard movies for a prime example of this)

In that context, I think D&D's falling damage is perfectly reasonable. How often do you see people in action movies go rolling down precipitous slopes, bouncing off various protusions, only to survive? It's practically required

 

[takyris]

I might consider Massive Damage rules for falling only -- I already use 50 Points+, but I think a Fort15 or drop to -1 on any fall that damages you greater than your Con makes that fall at least a little scary for the average hero....

Not planning on going to WP/VP any time soon. Maybe next campaign. In fact, the next campaign is going to be a fair amount deadlier, I think, with either WP/VP or Modern massive damage rules.

Or I could just go with what Capellan said in reverse... I was thinking of "through thin air" falls, like falling off a tightrope and not bouncing off anything. For falling down a steep slope, I'd probably only do half damage. By your logic, that's full damage... so I should do those normally, and make free falls automatically do double damage.

-Tacky

 

[mkletch]

I never understood WHY people want realism THAT badly. Sure it's nice when characters ACT realistically, and magic has some realistic LIMITS. But come on. If people HATE d20 that much, no sense in trying to change their opinions. Gamers are almost as bad as fundementalist when it comes to stuff they believe in. Changing their minds...I'd rather try converting Slitheren.

Roleplaying is about suspension of disbelief - you immerse yourself in the world and you 'are there'. Now if something absurd happens, like "bungie jump 200' without the bungie, and he still lives", the suspension of disbelief is gone. "This is just a dream, and a stupid one at that." It ruins the atmosphere, the scene, whatever.

Characters in books and movies are actually stopped by a 2 inch thick iron door. In D&D, you can destroy the door with a simple club, or even a set of chopsticks used as an improvised weapon. It's not so much that we want realism, it's that we want to discount the ridiculous results/situations that the rules sometimes produce. Make sense?

-Fletch!

 

[mkletch]

Or I could just go with what Capellan said in reverse... I was thinking of "through thin air" falls, like falling off a tightrope and not bouncing off anything. For falling down a steep slope, I'd probably only do half damage. By your logic, that's full damage... so I should do those normally, and make free falls automatically do double damage.

Or have a fall down a slope to half subdual, half real.

-Fletch!