Saving Throws?

[Just Another User]

Except you don't 'fail the first defence roll' The attacker rolls either 'hits' (slowed first round then unconcius from there on unless the target makes first save) or 'misses' (target slowed until save made)

Wait, I'm not sure how it work, attack against will, enemy is slowed for 1 round, then roll its save, either 1-9 (and fall asleep) or 10-20 (and it is not even slowed) Is it right?

In any way is another power virtually useless outside of combat.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

As I understand it {not playtestor..} is:

BG cast sleep and beats your WILL defence, you are slowed.
At the end of your turn, you roll a save. 9 or less and you are KOd.\, 10 or better and you are no longer slowed.
If KOd, at the end of your turn roll a save, 10 or better you wake up...but are still slowed, until you shake that off with a successful save.

So the successful Sleep spell will at the very least Slow the targets down and possibly put them out. Much better then the insta-win it was in some low level 3x games.


I could be wrong

 

[mach1.9pants]

As I understand it {not playtestor..} is:

BG cast sleep and beats your WILL defence, you are slowed.
At the end of your turn, you roll a save. 9 or less and you are KOd.\, 10 or better and you are no longer slowed.
If KOd, at the end of your turn roll a save, 10 or better you wake up...but are still slowed, until you shake that off with a successful save.

This

 

[Incenjucar]

In any way is another power virtually useless outside of combat.

As opposed to... a long-duration sleep?

The problem with that is it's a horribly horribly deadly ability.

 

[Voss]

This

Not sure it is that, precisely. For one, I don't think you go back to being slowed if you recover from unconsciousness. (Even if just because of the headache of potentially bouncing back and force between the two states) Hit, fail (ko), suceed(slow), fail (ko), suceeed(slow) etc...

And you left out that you are still slowed on a miss, with no chance of unconsciousness.

 

[AZRogue]

Remember also that there seem to be a lot of situations that give you ongoing damage and/or conditions.

Lets say that you are hit with the Slow from a Sleep spell, and, during that same round, by a Fire attack for 5 fire damage. You don't get a Save until the end of your turn, so are going to take some damage and be Slowed, at least, for at least your initial round.

But even after your round, when you get to make your Save, you only make one from what I understand. So, one effect may be removed but the other is still there. You have to roll a 20 to get rid of them all. So, with some strategy, you could stack effects on a target and even if he succeeds, he is still going to be hurting for quite some time. It can actually get very, very nasty.

Fire damage, Poison damage, Slowed, Immobilized, Stunned, etc. Maybe you can pick which one ends?

 

[Khaim]

But even after your round, when you get to make your Save, you only make one from what I understand.

No, I think you make one save per ability affecting you.

 

[Just Another User]

As opposed to... a long-duration sleep?

The problem with that is it's a horribly horribly deadly ability.

Well, in previious edition worked only on creatures way weaker than you (to the point of making it useless, I admit). but now it is at least misnamed, it is not sleep, at best is a nap, or a dooze.

But there are way to make it works and not make it useless outside combat, for example, make a saving throw every 10 minutes rather than every round, but say that any kind of damage is enough to awake the target (optional: if someone use a standard action to try to awake him he gain another saving throw), this would give at best a free critical, but you could use it with some profit in a non combat situation.

 

[AZRogue]

No, I think you make one save per ability affecting you.

Okay, thanks, I was wondering. If you were only allowed to make one then the continuing effects would be much, much more deadly since a couple of them stacked would pretty much guarantee a few rounds of suffering.

I'll have to see how the one Save per effect plays. I might want it to be deadlier.

 

[DamnedChoir]

You know, I hate to be the first to say this, but isn't the new Saving Throw mechanic...really really stupid?

We have all the defenses, Fort, Ref, and Will, and now sacing throws are basically a coin toss...except some classes/races/abilities give you a bonus to saving throws, so, at 5th level when you're loaded with magic items, you're going to be rolling 1d20+3 vs DC 10 to avoid an ongoing effect...

Isn't this just needlessly complicated? Keep saving throws, or use defenses, having both just seems silly.

*Fully expects to be flamed for this post*