Saving Throws?

[Sphyre]

You know, I hate to be the first to say this, but isn't the new Saving Throw mechanic...really really stupid?

We have all the defenses, Fort, Ref, and Will, and now sacing throws are basically a coin toss...except some classes/races/abilities give you a bonus to saving throws, so, at 5th level when you're loaded with magic items, you're going to be rolling 1d20+3 vs DC 10 to avoid an ongoing effect...

Isn't this just needlessly complicated? Keep saving throws, or use defenses, having both just seems silly.

*Fully expects to be flamed for this post*

Well I suppose, assuming since you're using defenses (attacker determines success or failure as opposed to defender) that you could use any of the following:

• No abilities that last more than one round.
• Abilities that have to be tracked a certain amount of rounds.
• Have the player who made the effect continue to reroll attacks each round to see if a given effect stays on the enemy.

Defenses are the ability protect yourself from harm. Saving throws are your ability to recover from harm after being affected by it. Makes sense to me... In fact, it actually kind of makes more sense than any previous edition in terms of terminology.

 

[Stalker0]

You know, I hate to be the first to say this, but isn't the new Saving Throw mechanic...really really stupid?

Its definitely different, and it has advantages and disadvantages.

Let's look at the 3.5 hold person (HP) mechanic vs the new 4e sleep (S) mechanic.

HP requires a will save to apply, and then requires a new will save every round. So every +1 to your will save has an exponential effect on your ability to ward off the spell. This also means that every +1 to DC can have a very large impact on the spell's effectiveness.

On the other hand, that means that a person's ability also has a big impact on your ability to ward off an effect, which can a model that many people desire.

With S, every +1 to attack roll provides a linear factor in the spell's power, as its ongoing effect is not determined by your spell's power. This creates a smoother scale in power, but it also means that Mr. McWill and Dumby could have the same duration on the effect, which is a problem with some people.

One nice thing about the S mechanic, is that it allows greater customization. I can create powers and magic items that only effect saving throws, instead of teh whole spell. Further, from a mechanics standpoint, it is useful to have the person adding modifiers to roll the dice.

For example, if a paladin is being targetted with a fear save, the DM can have the paladin's defense written down and just rolls the attack. But the paladin rolls the saving throw, and can remember to add his +5 to saving throws against fear, without having to inform the DM. These kind of things keep the rounds running smoother and faster.

Overall, I'm ready to see more. I also have some skepticism with the saving throw mechanic, but it is a very interesting way to go, and I'm certainly ready to give it a try.