Scaleable spells

[FireLance]

I think one of the easiest ways to ensure that spells scale with level and ensure that spellcasters don't eclipse the non-spellcasters is to give the spells fixed effects depending on spell level. A 3rd-level fireball doing 5d6 damage, while the 9th-level version doing 17d6 damage is a good example.

Knock- second level- the spell creat a golden magical key that can be used to open locked doors up to 1d4+1 times, the key will disappear after 3 hours. Spell focus - a key worth 50 GP, the key have a 50% chance of disintegrating if all the spell charges are used.

In the case of knock, I could allow the spellcaster to open a lock of a fixed difficulty. Depending on how 5e treats locks, it could be DC 17 for the 2nd-level version, going up to DC 31 for the 9th-level version, or the 2nd-level version could open Normal locks, the 4th-level version Hard locks, the 6th-level vesion Master locks and the 8th-level version Grand Master locks. This means that if a wizard wants to open the locks he is likely to encounter at his level, he will have to prepare knock is a high level enough spell slot that it is actually a significant trade-off for him.

Similarly, invisibility was stated to grant a fixed Hide DC in one of the supposably leaked playtests. Presumably, remaning hidden from higher-level and more perceptive opponents will require higher-level versions of the spell.

Divine Power - 4th - You gain the attacks of a fighter of your level
Divine Power - 5th - You gain the attacks of a fighter of your level and a +x divine bonus to strength.

For divine power, I doubt the spell would outright grant the attacks of an equal-level fighter. Instead, the 4th-level version might grant the attacks of a 5th-level fighter, the 7th-level version might grant the attacks of a 11th-level fighter, and the 9th-level version might grant the attacks of a 15th-level fighter.

 

[Janaxstrus]

I think one of the easiest ways to ensure that spells scale with level and ensure that spellcasters don't eclipse the non-spellcasters is to give the spells fixed effects depending on spell level. A 3rd-level fireball doing 5d6 damage, while the 9th-level version doing 17d6 damage is a good example.

In the case of knock, I could allow the spellcaster to open a lock of a fixed difficulty. Depending on how 5e treats locks, it could be DC 17 for the 2nd-level version, going up to DC 31 for the 9th-level version, or the 2nd-level version could open Normal locks, the 4th-level version Hard locks, the 6th-level vesion Master locks and the 8th-level version Grand Master locks. This means that if a wizard wants to open the locks he is likely to encounter at his level, he will have to prepare knock is a high level enough spell slot that it is actually a significant trade-off for him.

Similarly, invisibility was stated to grant a fixed Hide DC in one of the supposably leaked playtests. Presumably, remaning hidden from higher-level and more perceptive opponents will require higher-level versions of the spell.

For divine power, I doubt the spell would outright grant the attacks of an equal-level fighter. Instead, the 4th-level version might grant the attacks of a 5th-level fighter, the 7th-level version might grant the attacks of a 11th-level fighter, and the 9th-level version might grant the attacks of a 15th-level fighter.

I agree with the divine power part, like I said, I was just throwing that out there (and on my way to lunch at the time)

I think these would all be excellent changes to keep the feel of the wizard, but also tone them down.

 

[Blackwarder]

Personally, I wouldn't like to have a version of the same spell for each spell level, I prefer having at most three the regular one, the weaker one and the stronger one, having a 9th level knock spell seems like an over kill.

Warder

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

Personally, I wouldn't like to have a version of the same spell for each spell level, I prefer having at most three the regular one, the weaker one and the stronger one, having a 9th level knock spell seems like an over kill.

Warder

What if Fireball at 3rd level did 5d6, at 4th level did 7d6, and at 5th level did 10d6. would that be enough? or would you have to have a 6th and 7th level ones?

 

[dkyle]

What if Fireball at 3rd level did 5d6, at 4th level did 7d6, and at 5th level did 10d6. would that be enough? or would you have to have a 6th and 7th level ones?

I would think that spells like Fireball wouldn't have a bunch of different versions. It would just be 5d6 base, and then say "As higher level spell: add 2d6 for each level past 3rd". Specific different versions would only be needed for spells with non-quantitative effects.

 

[Ratskinner]

I want a shield or mage armor effect that can be cast as a swift action.

I'd rather not have this, I'd prefer something like:

Mage Armor: +2X to AC until end of encounter, where X = 2*Level of Mage Armor.

Shield: A magical barrier forms around you. This barrier deflects missile attacks, including magical attacks that target you as an individual. The barrier can only absorb 3X attacks before it dissipates, X is the level of Shield.

Keep it simple and quick is my rule.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I would think that spells like Fireball wouldn't have a bunch of different versions. It would just be 5d6 base, and then say "As higher level spell: add 2d6 for each level past 3rd". Specific different versions would only be needed for spells with non-quantitative effects.

I wonder, then if we could say lower slots are -2d6...

then we would have:


1st level 1d6 (avg 3.5)
2nd 3d6 (10.5)
3rd 5d6 (17.5)
4th 7d6 (24.5)
5th 9d6 (31.5)
6th 11d6 (38.5)
7th 13d6 (45.5)
8th 15d6 (52.5)
9th 17d6 (59.5)
10th 19d6 (66.5)

It would really be intresting that way. If we assume we want simalar avrages then a 2nd level spell can be 3d6 (10.5), 2d8+2 (11), or 2d10 (11), or 4d4 (10) or 1d20 (10.5)

 

[Szatany]

I would think that spells like Fireball wouldn't have a bunch of different versions. It would just be 5d6 base, and then say "As higher level spell: add 2d6 for each level past 3rd". Specific different versions would only be needed for spells with non-quantitative effects.

There was once a thread about the same subject. I posted my idea of how could a fireball look in 3e if it used the ideas of 5e (i.e. no automatic scaling). I'll repost here:

Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (100 ft.)
Area: 15 by 15 ft.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 5d6 points of fire damage to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.
Augment: Increase spell's level by 1 to choose one of the effects.
- Plus 2d6 damage.
- Plus 100 ft. range.
- Plus 5 ft. area (on each side)
- Plus 1 DC and +4 breach Spell Resistance.

 

[Ratskinner]

What if Fireball at 3rd level did 5d6, at 4th level did 7d6, and at 5th level did 10d6. would that be enough? or would you have to have a 6th and 7th level ones?

I would think you'd just word it into the spell description:

Fireball: Burst X, Range X, Save: Dex halves damage. Fireball does (2X-1)d6 damage to all creatures in the area. X is the level of Fireball.

Note: I am not implying that "Burst" is necessarily part of the rules. (It might make it easier, though.) You could work this "2e style" as well with "real" measurements:

Fireball: Radius 5L', Range 20L', Save: Dex halves damage. Fireball does (2L-1)d6 damage to all creatures in the area. L is the level of Fireball.

Similarly, if (for whatever reason) you needed to limit the levels at which a spell could be cast:

Ratskinner's Example: Creates 5L Rat skins, where L is the level of the Ratskinner's Example. If it is prepared using a spell slot of any higher level, Ratskinner's Example acts as a level 5 spell.

or Keyword it:
Ratskinner's Example: Max Level 5. Creates 5L Rat skins, where L is the level of the Ratskinner's Example.

 

[Ratskinner]

Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (100 ft.)
Area: 15 by 15 ft.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 5d6 points of fire damage to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.
Augment: Increase spell's level by 1 to choose one of the effects.
- Plus 2d6 damage.
- Plus 100 ft. range.
- Plus 5 ft. area (on each side)
- Plus 1 DC and +4 breach Spell Resistance.

You know (Not any reflection on you, Szatany.), I'm kinda hoping the Basic game doesn't need spells that take up so much space and have so many descriptors. The more I think about it, the more I want the Basic game to be simple and fast. I'd be fine with putting in some Keywords, like Magic the Gathering does, but I'd like D&D's Fireball to look more like:

Fireball Burst: 5L Range: 25L Damage: (2L-1)d6 (fire) Save: Dexhalves. Fireball creates an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals fire damage to every creature within its area. The explosion creates almost no pressure, and doesn't set normal items aflame (though it may scorch them). Extremely flammable substances (oils, etc.) may be ignited at the DM's discretion.

Probably just a dream, though.