Scent and Darkvision vs Shadowdancer

[Majere]

Ive played a shadowdancer through from 1st level rogue to 15th level rogue/sorcerer/shadowdancer.
He really does completely suck in combat, and the HiPS is cool, but to be honet, just cast invis on the rogue and you pretty much get the same effect.
It is only useful against mosters who can see invisible.

Pretty much everything has been immune to cneak attacks or had an ac so high I struggled to hit it.
That said you dont give up a huge amount per-se except sneak attack progression.

Majere

 

[mikebr99]

I would think, every Rogue should be considering at least one level of SD... for HiPS alone. Not usre any of the rest of it is worth giving up SA.

YMMV


Mike

 

[Abraxas]

Going to level 3 in SD worked pretty well for our player - the shadow companion was helpful in scouting and it was great at taking out big dumb monsters that have a hard time doing any real damage to it. The loss of 1d6 points of strength with every successful touch attack rocked. Of course, a couple of volleys of magic missiles later took it out

Nail - I'll be reading through the thread you posted sometime shortly. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Abraxas]

If the above is allowed, would you not want to increase the DC even further due to the fact that there is more movement then the one shot sniping (RAW)? Maybe a -30 for full attacking?

I wouldn't.

Bluffing someone and moving (not running) to cover/cocealment is only a -10 penalty. Doubling the penalty for attacking seems enough for me, especially since I would have an opposed check for each attack in the full attack sequence - the more checks, the more likely it is that the hiding character will fail.

Also, I look at it like this - The penalties don't increase because one character moves faster than another (a dwarf with a movement of 20 vs a monk with a movement of 70) so they shouldn't increase because one can make more attacks or has to move a little bit more while attacking.

I'm gonna go check out the other thread now.

 

[Invisible Warrior]

So, in effect, it is just as hard to shoot once and hide, as it is to hide while running (or charging). I would tend to agree, with a thrown weapon, or bow, but not really with a crossbow (especially when you aren't reloading).

I agree totally. Taking a shot with a crossbow, while hiding should not reduce your hide check. Granted, my Rogue/SD doesn't get the sneak attack bonus, but not being a target makes up for this...(My opinion.)

If the above is allowed, would you not want to increase the DC even further due to the fact that there is more movement then the one shot sniping (RAW)? Maybe a -30 for full attacking?

What I don't understand is why characters with HiPS are in the same position as characters without. I would imagine that a character well versed in the art of hiding would be far greater able to snipe than someone who just attempts to hide from the opponent, without training.

I think that HiPS should provide a greater ability to hide while sniping. Like -10, instead of -20, or like Mike said, increase the DC for characters without the hiding training.

I would voice my opinion that if you are within 10 feet of your opponent, and there are no shadows or cover to blend in with, then your HiPS gives you a 50% chance of not being observed, so if you are multi-attacking you could sneak attack the first time, then have a percentage for successful sneak attacks for the next attacks. I guess what I am more or less eluding to, is if you are using a ranged weapon, and a greater distance, like 30 feet, and in the shadows/blending into the surroundings, then I believe that your hide checks should not be affected, if the character has HiPS.

Opinions?

Thanks!

IW.

 

[mikebr99]

Hey, welcome to the boards....

I agree totally. Taking a shot with a crossbow, while hiding should not reduce your hide check. Granted, my Rogue/SD doesn't get the sneak attack bonus, but not being a target makes up for this...(My opinion.)

Why didn't your rogue get his SA extra damage, if he met all the requirements, and made the hide (sniping) roll?

What I don't understand is why characters with HiPS are in the same position as characters without. I would imagine that a character well versed in the art of hiding would be far greater able to snipe than someone who just attempts to hide from the opponent, without training.

They aren't... the HiSP'er has an easier time initiating the hide skill the the rogue without HiPS.

I think that HiPS should provide a greater ability to hide while sniping. Like -10, instead of -20, or like Mike said, increase the DC for characters without the hiding training.

Just for the record... you can't full attack while hiding.

I would voice my opinion that if you are within 10 feet of your opponent, and there are no shadows or cover to blend in with, then your HiPS gives you a 50% chance of not being observed, so if you are multi-attacking you could sneak attack the first time, then have a percentage for successful sneak attacks for the next attacks. I guess what I am more or less eluding to, is if you are using a ranged weapon, and a greater distance, like 30 feet, and in the shadows/blending into the surroundings, then I believe that your hide checks should not be affected, if the character has HiPS.

Opinions?

Thanks!

IW.

If there aren't any shadows to power the HiPS... it doesn't work.

If you are already hidden... HiSP doesn't help you any more... it helps you get to that point.

Sorry... but I don't agree with your opinion. HiPS is powerful enough without also removing the -20 from sniping.

Mike