Scheming Rogues

[Andor]

The round table today had this little gem in it. I think there is a lot of potential cool stuff to kick around and speculate about in here.

Mearls: Probably the biggest things are rogue schemes and cleric domains.

Jeremy Crawford: Yeah, the rogue has really come into focus this week.

Rogues have schemes, possibly as a parallel to a clerics domains?

So is a scheme how a Rogue does things (again, like a Clerics Domain) so you might have a cat-burglar or a thief-acrobat or a con-man, or is it a mechanic that allows the rogue to accomplish his schtick? So you might 'pull a scheme' to flim-flam some cash out of the yokels by selling snake oil, or organize a ring of child pickpockets, or try to inflitrate the society ball to snag her ladyship's jewels and/or virtue? Each of those might be a seperate scheme, possibly analagous to a 4e skill challange, and thus giving the rogue his own design space akin to the fighters manuevers or a wizard or clerics magic.

What do you guys think class build option, or unique mechanic? Or something else I didn't think of?

 

[grimslade]

I think schemes are rogue maneuvers but extend beyond combat to the other pillars. Skill tricks and social graces.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Best case: It's like a domain. Rogues have always been a diverse bunch. They need archetypes or something of that nature to represent all the charlatans, scouts, assassins, and thugs out there.

Worst case: It's like a power. It's some kind of excuse to say that only rogues can do X and has some arbitrary limitations attached to it.

Other case: Maybe it's just another word for maneuver, which could go either way.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[The Shadow]

I zeroed in on that comment myself. Was just about to post on it when I noticed yours, in fact.

Based on the apparent parallelism, I'm guessing that schemes are to rogues as domains are to clerics. What exactly that looks like, I'm hard-pressed to say.

I wonder if the pregen playtest characters are yet set in stone? Will the rogue character reflect these 'scheme' ideas?

 

[bloodtide]

I like the idea of 'different rogues', but feel I will be disappointed. While I can think of lots of rogue types in just five seconds(Thief, Grifter, Hacker, Hitter, Mastermind) I some how know that WotC will get locked on the ''Rogue is the most awesome Striker to back stab a dragon for a billion points of damage pew pew!''. As the first thing that anyone thinks of when they hear 'rogue' or 'scoundrel' is the massive trail of dead bodies they leave in their wake(Remember that scene in Star Wars where Han Solo striked and hacked his way through every stromtropper in the empire and sneak attacked Darth Vader for 200 points of damage).

At most we will get the 'lame attempt to make everyone happy'. Like the 'Thief Rogue' will get a +2 to steal checks.....while the 'Striker Rogue Demigod' gets 1d22+1d10/1d12 damage times four.

If your going to make 'different rogues' you'd hope they could at least give a 'page' to each type and give each type a host of related, but different abilities. And not just generic 'a rogue gets a +2 to a skill(pick one) type ability. Give them real abilities that set them apart.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Be more pessimistic...

you know, there is a playtest...

So, I don´t know what happens here in Enworld. But the more I read the more I think, a playtest may be a bad idea.

Comments like "those are the same designers as before and won´t have different ideas" or "wotc will do a high damging rogue, no matter what we want..." are really bad.

I don´t know. What I read is, that they are doing their best and really do have different ideas. They actually have experience.

As I said elsewhere. I just have the feeling, (some) pathfinder guys can´t be included in the new edition. They have a grat edition and seem to dislike wotc, no matter what they say or do.

I honestly believe, we will see a great edition soon.

 

[Li Shenron]

3e rogues had special abilities, which worked like rogues-only feats. In fact they were slightly more powerful than feats, but rogues could take a feat in place of a special ability.

Schemes could be simply templates for a set of special abilities + common feats + additional skills, each set being designed around an archetype.

 

[GM Dave]

The title of Schemes instead of Tricks or Maneuvers seems to indicate they've taken the idea of the Rogue and moved it out of a strictly Combat focus.

There may be a heavy backstab/sneak attack option for the Thug/pouncer type of Rogue.

Schemes as a title might indicate a player could also pick up emphasis on stealth for a scout, charisma skills for a begger or charlatan, ingenuity for a crafter/item user, brilliance for a puzzle/trap solver.

It will be good if Schemes is a way to theme the various advantages provided.

I like the Rogue Tricks of PF but I do find it is hard sometimes to find a 'Trick' that matches with my particular concept. There are so many good choices but there is no good organization of the material so it can take a while to search through the lists in four different core books (very much like the Glut thread discussion ~ unmanaged options).

 

[trancejeremy]

Sounds like kits to me.

Which honestly, in retrospect, weren't at all a bad thing. Just they would publish stuff without testing them (which happened in 3x as well)

 

[Minigiant]

Maybe schemes are the way rogues gain new and better skills.

The acrobat scheme could grant Balance, Climb, Tumble and Evasion.

If the rogue's background grants Pick Pockets Bluff, and Open Locks; the rogue has 3 new skills and evasion

If the rogue's background granted Juggling, Balance, and Joke Telling; the rogue gains 2 new skills, his balance increases, and he gets evasion.