D&D 5E Scout fighter archetype

[peterka99]

I agree Rogues should get another more ... lawful archetype. I don't want to create a brand new class because I would need 2-3 archetypes (I tried!). I think Keen mind, observer, athlete and actor are under-used, so it would be cool to give it to a mobile and perceptive character.

I always saw the +1 stat for these feats as a lame way to buff the feat to match the others... Now they my "talents" have a 1/2 feat value.

Cherry picking, yes. OP. No, as the main point is the archetype is not better in combat than others... The scout will be a little bit more in the melee that other archers...

 

[peterka99]

what about:

as a rogue , sneak attacks as Skirmish ranged attacks only. Weaker... I added a feature to be able to use ranged weapons on melee (see crossbow expert feat)

3 Archetype feature: Natural explorer, all martial weapons proficiencies, Can use ranged attack within 5' without disadvantage. limitation: further sneak attacks as Skirmish ranged attacks only
7 Archetype feature: Natural explorer improvement, one new talent
10 Archetype feature: jack of all trades, Natural explorer improvement
15 One new talent
18 Archetype feature: Two new talents

 

[MrMyth]

Ok, I appreciate the clarification about talents. At first, it sounded like you were saying a talent was, "Any feat without a stat bump OR this list of utility stat bump feats". Saying that it is those lists, without the stat bump benefit, does make more sense.

And yet... I think this newest design would make for a functional class, but I'm still not entirely sure it is an interesting one. The clarification about the talents make them more reasonable, but it still doesn't seem to be something to build a class around. (In particular, it means your final archetype benefits are "get the remaining talents that you weren't interested in taking earlier.)

Notably, if all the archetype does is give you extra feats, or features from other classes, it just doesn't feel like it is fitting the proper role for an archetype. You can get those elements *already*, either via feats themselves or multiclassing. An archetype that does nothing but snag abilities from other classes just doesn't make sense to me. Sure, you have something along those lines with Eldritch Knight, for example - it is about giving casting. But it still does something unique with it via all of its special abilities.

Similarly, I can understand wanting to use the 'utility feats' since they are already there, rather than designing new elements. But personally, I like the fact that I can have a Champion with the "Remarkable Athlete" feature and a Thief with the "Second Story Work" ability and a Ranger with the "Athlete" feat, and they all feel slightly distinct from one another.

Archetypes, by and large, seem to be about focus. Having one about diversifying... I'm not saying it is a bad idea. I like it, conceptually. I'm just having trouble really seeing how to make it work. If your goal is to just have them represent an experienced traveler, it feels like you can already do that just via background and feats alone. I really feel like a better approach for a Scout is to figure out what they should excel at, and build from there.

 

[peterka99]

I will post a scout with recon and combat abilities to replace ranger's spellcasting and favored enemy. It means I'll need a new class since these abilities are not only archetype features... Outdoorman and wanderer are background terms... Any idea how to specialize a scout ? Intelligence analysis or more combat oriented ?

 

[collin]

I will post a scout with recon and combat abilities to replace ranger's spellcasting and favored enemy. It means I'll need a new class since these abilities are not only archetype features... Outdoorman and wanderer are background terms... Any idea how to specialize a scout ? Intelligence analysis or more combat oriented ?

Saving Throws should favor Dexterity and Intelligence
Specialization/Archetype is trickier. I might consider making Outdoorsman a theme of a specialty (nature-boy). You might also have one that focuses on something more militaristic, like an Infiltrator theme. Sorry I am not more help right now. I will give it some more thought and see what I can come up with.

 

[peterka99]

I will post a Scout as an Alternate ranger (as a class)- with the same 2 archetypes. Different from 2nd level since I remove all divine and favored enemy mentions. Frankly, it is more focused and less cherry-picky than earlier versions...

We need an extra attack because there is no spells. Of course, military training can be replaced by something more focused... Any idea ?

Scout class

all Ranger hit points, proficiencies, saving throws, skills and equipment class features.

1st Favored enemy, Natural Explorer
2nd Fighting Style, , Recon training
3rd Ranger archetype feature,Primeval Awareness
4th Ability Score Improvement
5th Extra Attack
6th Favored enemy and Natural Explorer improvement
7th Ranger archetype feature
8th Ability Score Improvement, Land’s Stride
9th Military training
10th Natural Explorer improvement, Hide in Plain Sight
11th Ranger archetype feature
12th Ability Score Improvement
13th Recon training
14th Favored enemy improvement, Vanish
15th Ranger archetype feature
16th Ability Score Improvement
17th Extra Attack (2)
18th Feral Senses
19th Ability Score Improvement
20th Foe slayer


abilities:

Reconnaissance training- Select from these 3 abilities (at 1st then 13th level)

1) Intelligence analysis: You can ably create written ciphers. Others can’t decipher a code you create unless you teach them, they succeed on an Intelligence check (DC equal to your Intelligence score + your proficiency bonus), or they use magic to decipher it.

You can decipher scripts in foreign languages and can understand maps, and trail blazing signs to a functional level. You can recognize heraldic emblems from enemy armies.

2) Speech training: You can mimic the speech of another person or the sounds made by other creatures. You must have heard the person speaking, or heard the creature make the sound, for at least 1 minute. A successful Wisdom (Insight) check contested by your Charisma (Deception) check allows a listener to determine that the effect is faked.

If you can see a creature’s mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it’s saying by reading its lips.

3) Perfect memory: You always know which way is north.
• You always know the number of hours left before the
next sunrise or sunset.
• You can accurately recall anything you have seen or
heard within the past month.

Combat training – Athlete, Mobile, Skulker or Sharpshooter feats

Beastmaster 15th level replacement: Inspiring leader for animals and can train 5 extra animals as per companion (lowest level)

 

[LapBandit]

This definitely feels like a ranger archetype (and hey they are missing one!). I think it's fine to lift a few thief rogue abilities to power the sneak/skulking the scout will do as well as a few moves from the battle master fighter that fit with the theme. I would however refrain from getting signature class defining features like Cunning Action, Sneak Attack, Action Surge, or Second Wind. I wish one of the ranger archetypes would further Favored Enemy and the scout could do that by getting some sort of bonus against creatures that it has observed for 1 minute (like a temporary strong Favored Enemy boost). You think they would somehow be associated to : Perception, Deception, Disguise. I also like the idea of them being able to double Dash somehow. Mobility (running,climbing,swimming) could be their strong suit.

 

[peterka99]

This definitely feels like a ranger archetype

Which previous post are you referring to (there are so many ).
A ranger favored enemy is related for me to a devotion to nature, a vow to stalk nature's enemy given vs spells. So, I don't think we can keep favored enemy and not magic.

Mobile is in the list of military training from last post. I don't think we can get a more mobile scout...

 

[LapBandit]

Which previous post are you referring to (there are so many ).
A ranger favored enemy is related for me to a devotion to nature, a vow to stalk nature's enemy given vs spells. So, I don't think we can keep favored enemy and not magic.

Mobile is in the list of military training from last post. I don't think we can get a more mobile scout...

I am talking about reflavoring Favored Enemy to something like ... Scouted Enemy. Doesn't have to retain the same feel as Favored. Also, the scout should be able to work ably well in all environs unless they are specifically a wilderness scout.

 

[peterka99]

the scout should be able to work ably well in all environs unless they are specifically a wilderness scout.

I don't think a scout can get all these favored enemy bonuses merely after a briefing from his(her) officers. The army will hire a scout because (s)he knows the orcs, goblins, etc... OK, I think favored enemy can be left. I will remove a few unfocused entries from the previous post.