Seal of Binding+Divine Regeneration is NOT an automatic win

[ac_noj]

It is a mighty technique, but the point of this thread is that it is not that 1-shot kill.

You're right that's it's not unlimited damage, and you're right that there are three monsters that can survive it...but every character that beats the Clerics initiative gets a shot in, and the moment the Seal breaks everyone but the Cleric get's their readied actions.

So maybe it's not a one shot kill, but you can still take out Orcus without him ever getting an action, and that makes it an automatic win if it hits.

 

[keterys]

And if the people who go first do things like "Wrath of the Gods, +9 damage to every damage roll" then you're back to anything dying from the extra 450 damage.

Regardless, just because something barely lives doesn't excuse it. If there was a power 'All enemies are reduced to 1 hp' it wouldn't be balanced, even if you maybe had a chance to respond.

 

[dragonchild]

It does seem kind of broken, but when you consider that it's a daily power and takes up the cleric's stanard actions for the fight it doesn't seem that much different than having your cleric go off and fight the monster alone 'til its dead. It's a bit unbalancing against solo creatures, but most DM's I know (including myself) would work around that. At 26th level every big baddy is probably smart or powerful enough to have some of lackeys around who are tough enough to give the other characters enough trouble that the cleric needs to focus on something else. They're probably smart enough to realize they should gang up on the cleric too. It even says in Orcus' entry that he surrounds himself with undead guards and minions, which I would hope means he's supposed to have some in the room with him and that they're more than just the ghouls and wraiths he can create.

 

[keterys]

True - it's totally fair to spend the first three rounds of combat dealing with his lackeys and catching Orcus in area effects (like an orb-ed Legion's Hold, that kinda thing) so that you can take him down with Seal once he's down to 80% health

It's true, though, it's not an automatic win if you hit. It's just a 99.9%.

Ah well, eventually the errata will come

 

[dragonchild]

Knowing my DM, Orcus would be sitting on a pile of bodies and be raising 35 of his ghouls each round. They seem like they'd be insignificant at 30th level, but eventually the natural 20s or automatic damage would eventually force the cleric to lay off. At which point he might be nice enough to deem he's out of corpses.

 

[Tale]

I'd try throwing an Aspect of Orcus at them, hoping they blow their dailies thinking it the real deal. It probably wouldn't work.

 

[Syrsuro]

I'm not sure I see the problem.

A character who is a demigod, can - if he uses two dailies (a level 25 and a level 26) - have an excellent chance of taking out any single opponent. Assuming the opponent's allies don't have a way of stopping him.

So what's the problem?

That's pretty much what I would expect a demigod to be able to do.

What makes Orcus so special? If you are going to stat him and put him in the book as a monster, then implicit in that approach is that he can and should be killed.

He's ONLY level 33 and thus - like any other level 33 monster - ought to be in reach of a party of level 26 plus. Its not about that one encounter, its about that encounter, plus the surrounding encounters, plus whatever the goals of the adventure are.

Its not an MMO(RP)G built around raids to kill boss mobs when they respawn, its a roleplaying game. You don't have to worry about whether this build or that build has an unfair advantage over some other build. You just have to worry about whether your party is challenged by your adventures.


Carl

 

[Tale]

I'm not sure I see the problem.

A character who is a demigod, can - if he uses two dailies (a level 25 and a level 26) - have an excellent chance of taking out any single opponent. Assuming the opponent's allies don't have a way of stopping him.

So what's the problem?

That's pretty much what I would expect a demigod to be able to do.

Carl

Because this demigod is lower level than his opponent and his opponent has killed full-fledged gods.

We're not talking about a demigod taking out the local militia captain. We're talking about a demigod taking out a god slayer.

 

[Stalker0]

So what's the problem?

That's pretty much what I would expect a demigod to be able to do.

Carl

Therefore 5 demigods, the typical party (and hey if demigod is so good why not) can take out 5 orcus' a day.

I don't know how many orcus' my campaign can take

 

[theNater]

You're right that's it's not unlimited damage, and you're right that there are three monsters that can survive it...but every character that beats the Clerics initiative gets a shot in, and the moment the Seal breaks everyone but the Cleric get's their readied actions.

There are three monsters that can survive average damage. Every appropriate level solo can survive minimum damage, and therefore the power.

Many of them aren't likely to, but that doesn't make them unable to.

So maybe it's not a one shot kill, but you can still take out Orcus without him ever getting an action, and that makes it an automatic win if it hits.

Y'know, I'd kind of like to see how likely a party is to take out Orcus without him getting an action. If he does come out of it with over 200 hit points, they aren't guaranteed to drop him with one action each.

Heck, even if he comes out of it with 1 hp, there's still a chance they'll all miss. He's not exactly easy to hit, after all.