Seal of Binding+Divine Regeneration is NOT an automatic win

[Runestar]

I am still convinced that the simplest way to fix this is to just houserule that demigod grants regen = your highest stat mod, rather than your stat altogether. It really is this accelerated rate of healing which keeps the seal of binding motor running (outside of this, seal just becomes a rather inefficient way of damaging your opponent, with its main use to simply disable a foe for a few rounds before the damage taken becomes unsustainable), since there is really no other way of accessing so much healing.

 

[MarkChevallier]

Then Demigod regeneration would be strictly worse than the benefits of Holy Wrath, a level 19 Cleric Daily that in addition to attacking and damaging several opponents, gives you +2 power bonus to attack rolls and regen 10 until the end of the encounter. The problem is not inherently Divine Healing; it is the fact you can heal at all whilst under the effect of the power (and damage monsters who are under its effect).

Look at the analysis above - you can, with a straight regen of 10 from Holy Wrath, still get 26 rounds of stun lock while the PCs lay on hurt to your enemy. That's still broken in terms of the effectiveness of the power, and still broken in terms of the dullness of the battle.

 

[keterys]

If Seal of Binding lasts for three rounds... it's already a spell that makes the battle excessively boring. Five and it's too powerful as well. Ten and it's broken.

Give or take a little, but it doesn't take long to hit the 'Okay, this made the battle excessively boring' stage.

 

[Runestar]

I dunno, I still quite like the idea of a spell which can temporarily remove a creature from combat. Take the Orcus scenario, for example. The sample MM encounter has him accompanied with a few atropals and 8 lich vestiges. I was thinking that the cleric might use seal of binding to negate Orcus, while the rest of the party quickly clears the battlefield of all other "nuisances". Then the cleric stops maintaining seal of binding, and everyone lets rip.

Or maybe remove the damage component of seal of binding? You simply pay life to stun the foe. Preventing the cleric from healing while maintaining seal could be viable though. I am aware that there are many ways it can be fixed, but I am hoping that the proposed revision will not alter seal's use too dramatically, or nerf it into uselessness (it still needs to be in line with other lv25 dailies).

On a side note, what sort of damage does seal do? Is it possible to acquire resistance to it in any form? That might be something else to watch out for.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Seal of Binding needs to work like Curse of the Dark Delirium (i.e. to sustain standard, reroll the attack every time, and you can't sustain it any more on a miss).

Simple, balanced solution.

/thread

 

[MarkChevallier]

I dunno, I still quite like the idea of a spell which can temporarily remove a creature from combat. Take the Orcus scenario, for example. The sample MM encounter has him accompanied with a few atropals and 8 lich vestiges. I was thinking that the cleric might use seal of binding to negate Orcus, while the rest of the party quickly clears the battlefield of all other "nuisances". Then the cleric stops maintaining seal of binding, and everyone lets rip.

Or maybe remove the damage component of seal of binding? You simply pay life to stun the foe. Preventing the cleric from healing while maintaining seal could be viable though. I am aware that there are many ways it can be fixed, but I am hoping that the proposed revision will not alter seal's use too dramatically, or nerf it into uselessness (it still needs to be in line with other lv25 dailies).

On a side note, what sort of damage does seal do? Is it possible to acquire resistance to it in any form? That might be something else to watch out for.

I agree it needs to remain useful; I think getting 4 or 5 rounds use out of it still would be incredibly useful (verging on overpowered perhaps, if others can damage him while he is in the seal - an ancillary houserule might be that, in addition to taking no effect from attacks, all damage dealt to the target by anything other than the seal is reduced to zero)

The damage inflicted by seal of binding is untyped and cannot be reduced by any resistance or immunity.

 

[keterys]

Hurl Through Hell and Maze are perfectly valid ways of removing a creature from the combat without Seal's balance problems and unfun nature.