Second Rank reach special attacks

[Legildur]

Well, had a character death in the World's Largest Dungeon last week and need a new character. I had a human Rgr1/Ftr5 archer that was doing really well, except that he found himself wielding a greatsword more often than not.

I originally created a half-orc Bbr2/Ftr4 glaive wielding replacement with the intention of fighting from the second rank as the dwarf Ftr and Elf Ftr [going for the Champion of Corellon PrC] are both axe/sword and board style with decent AC.

But that got me to thinking, what about trying something with a little more style? I was tossing up the idea of a sorceror1/monkX combo wielding a reach weapon in order to get some annoying combat tricks (disarm and trip) to support the front line. The level of sorceror was simply to have ready access to Enlarge Person (for the obscene reacha nd associated AOOs) and possibly Shield.

I was eyeing off the variant Monk fighting styles in Unearthed Arcana (to get the bonus feats in Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Improved Disarm) and have access to all the 'Complete X' and 'Races of Y' books and Dragon Compendium Vol I.

Generated stats were (from memory) 17, 17, 16, 15, 14, 9.

The spiked chain is looking like the most obvious solution (no one has used it in our games - EVER), but there may be other solutions out there (there is a feat in DC that allows a non-monk light exotic weapon to be used in a flurry of blows).

If possible, I'd like to squeeze in (in the future) a couple of levels of Exotic Weapon Master (CW) to gain some of the special abilities there that add bonuses to trip attacks and allow you to take AOOs against creatures with cover.

Or should I simply be chasing down the half-orc Sor1/BbrX or similar route?

Oh yeah, no psionics and unlikely to alllow flaws/traits, but you never know.

There's another thread here looking at an Enlightened Fist build that could be interesting reference as well (except that Wraithstrike would not be tolerated).

 

[Dracandross]

But that got me to thinking, what about trying something with a little more style? I was tossing up the idea of a sorceror1/monkX combo wielding a reach weapon in order to get some annoying combat tricks (disarm and trip) to support the front line. The level of sorceror was simply to have ready access to Enlarge Person (for the obscene reacha nd associated AOOs) and possibly Shield.

If your fighters pull front row fine, idea of staying back is good (for your own health at least). Id not pull Sorc 1 to get enlarge because without practiced spellcaster it would last only short while. Better to pick race that has 1) reach already 2) let someone enlarge you 3) stick with normal reach 4) make real gish 5) get item that grants enlarge person. 6) Be duergar who has enlarge self ability
Reason is that 1 sorc level almost makes out +1LA anyway, party usually has someone who can boost you.

-Dracandross

 

[Legildur]

I agree with all your points, Dracandross. However:

Non PHB races are out of the question in our games - no particular reason, just is.

The sorceror in the party (the only arcane caster) doesn't know Enlarge Person. Besides, he'd rather use it for Magic Missiles in any case, so I can't rely on him.

Practised Spellcaster is a thought, but 10 rounds of enlargement (1 min/level) is probably more than enough in most circumstances anyway.

An item of Enlarge Person is almost guaranteed to not be available... bit like non-PHB races.

 

[Dracandross]

I agree with all your points, Dracandross. However:

Non PHB races are out of the question in our games - no particular reason, just is.

The sorceror in the party (the only arcane caster) doesn't know Enlarge Person. Besides, he'd rather use it for Magic Missiles in any case, so I can't rely on him.

Practised Spellcaster is a thought, but 10 rounds of enlargement (1 min/level) is probably more than enough in most circumstances anyway.

Hmm, well that leaves a lot less options then. If you really just want enlarge person howabout cleric & domain that grants it. You could take few extra cleric levels, as it would not hurt your BaB then nor HPs and even better youd have few heals when buffs are out of question. Besides then you would not have spellfailure with armour. Would give longer duration (more like cast it prebattle if known and still have plenty of time to run around)

Id say sorceror shoulda have time to enlarge you later when she has better offensives than magic missile, few levels later. Its more bang for buck then anyway.

-Dracandross

 

[Legildur]

Actually, Strength domain provides access to Enlarge Person, and the added bonus of the domain ability. Shame Alter Self (for Natural Armor) isn't on the list..... but I'm really just after the reach. Thanks Dracandross.

And Cleric's don't have access to Cat's Grace? That's untidy....

 

[mvincent]

Enlarge is best cast by a wizard in the party (which he should be happy do once he sees how effective the combo is). Also, potions of enlarge are only 50 gp (despite their price mistake in the DMG.)

Enlarged Reach-Trippers are powerful. Although the monk can still make all his unarmed attacks even with his hands full (ensuring that you still threaten adjacent squares while wielding a reach weapon), a spiked chain is good because either way you have to burn a feat to gain proficiency... might as well make it an exotic weapon. Besides, spiked chains are finesseable (allowing you to make a dex based monk if you desire... but those are better for disarming than for tripping).

Heck, I recommend monks carry a spiked chain even if they are not proficient with it (for the free AoO's... it's not like they need their hands free for anything else)

 

[Legildur]

Okay, thanks to Dracondross, I settled on a character concept and played him last night.

Went for half-orc Bbr1/Ftr2/Clr3. Stats are:

str 20 (17 +2 racial +1 4th level increase)
dex 17
con 16
int 13 (15 -2 racial)
wis 15
cha 7 (9 -2 racial)

He is a cleric of Kord with the Strength and Luck domains. And I took the optional rule from PHB II where he can spontaneously cast spells from the Strength domain rather than cure spells.

Feats are Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, and Improved Trip.

Equipped with +1 mithral breastplate and a +1 spiked chain (and comp longbow - which saw good use along with the Magic Weapon spell last night).

Atk +11 for 2d4+8 with a basic disarm check of +17.

I only realised last night how strong he could get when I started looking at options. Casting Enlarge Person and Bull's Strength, and then raging (1/day) means I can get his Strength score to 30 for 10 rounds (20 base +2 size +4 enchancement +4 rage)

Anyway, Combat Reflexes was fantastic feat last night, got swamped by barghests when flat-footed, and the feat allowed 4 AOOs as they closed.

I'm yet to use all the other abilities, but it looks promising. Achilles heal at this stage is AC 19 (meant to be second rank, but not working out that way). And not sure how I want to progress him at this stage (looking for Exotic Weapon Master PrC), but that won't be for a while (as need Weapon Focus (spiked chain) to do so).

Can't seem to find a decent PrC in a wizards product that allows progression of clerical casting with med BAB. Any ideas?