bardolph
First Post
Multiple Attribute Dependency. In 4e, a MAD character needs high scores in three or more attributes in order to be effective.
Secondary ability benefits - why the wizard inconsistency?
- Thread starter Plane Sailing
- Start date
Reaper Steve
Explorer
^
Thanks!
Now I will reread the thread and it will make more sense!
Thanks!
Now I will reread the thread and it will make more sense!
Fedifensor
Explorer
Well, unless you're ready to dump 9 points in Str or Con to get the stat to 16, you're never going to have more than a 13 Fort as a 1st level wizard. So, I think you would have been slapped around regardless. Moral of the story - stay away from enemies who attack versus Fortitude.Wow, and here I thought I was being risky with my Int 20 Wizard.
Course, the fact that my DM was whaling on his Fort 12 at second level Defense multiple times last night does illustrate the inherent risk in this strategy.
It was the Cleric (or whatever it was) at the end of KotS. I had no choice but to be near enough to him to attack him back.
As for Fort, it's true that I did not have a good one at level one and that's tough for any first level Wizard to achieve. But, one of my goals is to have a semi-decent Fort by level 30 (actually, by level 14: 22 without magic).
S C D I W Ch
8 10 12 20 12 12 1st
10 18 14 30 16 14 30th
With +6 items at level 30, AC 45 Fort 39 Reflex 42 Will 40. Not great, but not terrible either. I suspect that many PCs will have at least one Defense lower than 39 in many campaigns at level 30. I prefer them to be a bit more balanced so that although the lowest two are a bit on the weak side, none of the Defenses are totally lame.
Having no secondary attribute seemingly 'forced' onto the wizard is great. It leaves them wide open for various feat requirements. Most character builds have to forgo certain feats in favor of power synergies, wizards are really the only class that doesn't have this kind of pressure. Thus making it easy to build a Heavy Armor, Heavy Shield Wizard possible without crippling its attack attributes (if you were so inclined)
AtomicPope
Hero
I have a mixed feeling about Wizards and MAD. Initially I didn't like the idea, but after some consideration I felt it was for the better. The reason it's good to have only INT as their primary stat is (as others have pointed out) it allows wizards to choose their secondary and tertiary stats for Implement Mastery.
There is a problem however, as you've pointed out, there are two At Wills which are dependent on Wis. I've house rules them to be dependent on Int. This supports a single primary stat shared by all wizards. Leavying any additional benefits to be granted by Implements rather than a miscellaneous secondary stat.
There is a problem however, as you've pointed out, there are two At Wills which are dependent on Wis. I've house rules them to be dependent on Int. This supports a single primary stat shared by all wizards. Leavying any additional benefits to be granted by Implements rather than a miscellaneous secondary stat.
I don't think you should alter those at-wills. If you do that, even mor wizards will start with Int 20 instead of 18. With Cloud of Daggers using Int instead of wisdom, it becomes far better than magic missile damage wise. And Thiunderwave is good enough based on Wisdom. Making Int is way to good.
Agreed.
Even with a 20 Int, it was a conscious choice to have a 12 Wis and use Cloud of Daggers as a single target attack and minion killer as opposed to a booming attack (ditto for Thunderwave as a push for only medium opponents without reach weapons).
AtomicPope
Hero
Cloud of Daggers currently isn't being used in the group I DM because of the WIS req, same with Thunderwave. Having a Wand Wizard makes two spells nigh unusable but all of the other spells function perfectly. Not a single wizard took either spell.
As far as damage, there's more to MM than just damage. It's a basic attack with incredible range. Currently, the group I DM has a Warlord in it who revels in the damage output created by "group" basic attacks. Essentially, he takes powers that grant basic attacks for free making MM a necessary option for wizards in this party.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
If you are interested, I've got a thread here http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4381677 which looks at the total number of energy keywords available to wizards via their standard powers. Feats that boost Fire and Cold are the most cost-effective way to go!
