Excellent! That was kind of what I was thinking would be the way out, and yeah I was planning to up the DC's a little bit. My players actually just leveled (and since we're all new to the system I let them make quite a few more changes to their characters than the standard re-training, since I think a lot of choices they made at the start didn't really turn out to make much sense, or work the way we all thought they would) so I need to make sure I have accurate info on their perception skills and such. I don't think anyone is going to have over a 20, but I think at least a couple members of the party might be close.
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Seekers of the Ashen Crown
- Thread starter happybandit
- Start date
Once again thank you all for the help on this trap, my party just got to and triggered it tonight (that's where we left off), and I definitely feel like I understand it a bit better than I would have before I found this.
Now, for those of you who've gotten a bit further in the adventure... I've got a few more questions.
1) In the room before the grinding ball trap, my party couldn't work out what they were supposed to do, and tried depressing a few of the tiles (they were neither the "good" ones or the "bad" ones) but then basically gave up and moved on to the next room. I couldn't find anything in the description that said they couldn't do this, or come up with a reason why not that made any sort of sense in my head, so I went ahead and let them. What this meant was that they didn't fight any of the fiendish creatures or the Kruthiks that show up if they open the secret passage. Was this the wrong move? I'm assuming this essentially just means that they don't get any of the XP from that room, which is I suppose fine, but it just felt odd that they could just bypass the room entirely and there wasn't anything in the description of the room to tell me that that was an option or what. A sentence somewhere saying "if the party just moves on nothing happens" or something like that would have been good just so I didn't feel like I'd missed something.
I've been reading ahead and I've noticed similar sorts of situations in some of the later encounters in the Tomb.
Encounter 5 for example: It says that if the PC's tamper with any of the tomb doors they all open and the creatures inside come out. It also says this triggers the blood mist. That's fine, but I have no idea what happens if they PC's just move on to the exit and open those doors.
I'd probably just assume that they could do that and avoid the combat like I did with the last one except that it says "If the blood mist is triggered increase the XP value by 100." But I can't see a way for the PC's to end up in combat without the blood mist being triggered. What am I missing? How or when do the various monsters attack if the PC's don't tamper with the tomb doors? The Tactics section and every other part don't offer any clues to this. I don't know what will trigger their attack other than something that will trigger the full encounter, but clearly something will, so... what am I missing?
Now, for those of you who've gotten a bit further in the adventure... I've got a few more questions.
1) In the room before the grinding ball trap, my party couldn't work out what they were supposed to do, and tried depressing a few of the tiles (they were neither the "good" ones or the "bad" ones) but then basically gave up and moved on to the next room. I couldn't find anything in the description that said they couldn't do this, or come up with a reason why not that made any sort of sense in my head, so I went ahead and let them. What this meant was that they didn't fight any of the fiendish creatures or the Kruthiks that show up if they open the secret passage. Was this the wrong move? I'm assuming this essentially just means that they don't get any of the XP from that room, which is I suppose fine, but it just felt odd that they could just bypass the room entirely and there wasn't anything in the description of the room to tell me that that was an option or what. A sentence somewhere saying "if the party just moves on nothing happens" or something like that would have been good just so I didn't feel like I'd missed something.
I've been reading ahead and I've noticed similar sorts of situations in some of the later encounters in the Tomb.
Encounter 5 for example: It says that if the PC's tamper with any of the tomb doors they all open and the creatures inside come out. It also says this triggers the blood mist. That's fine, but I have no idea what happens if they PC's just move on to the exit and open those doors.
I'd probably just assume that they could do that and avoid the combat like I did with the last one except that it says "If the blood mist is triggered increase the XP value by 100." But I can't see a way for the PC's to end up in combat without the blood mist being triggered. What am I missing? How or when do the various monsters attack if the PC's don't tamper with the tomb doors? The Tactics section and every other part don't offer any clues to this. I don't know what will trigger their attack other than something that will trigger the full encounter, but clearly something will, so... what am I missing?
Having just finished running this part of seekers basically I can offer some advice.
In the case of Encounter 2. You are correct nothing happens if they just walk past. However, my players couldn't leave the two 150gp gems just sitting there. I mean that was almost as much cash as they had seen in one place before. So they triggered the trap for being greedy. If you want the encounter to go of you could just assume opening the eastern doors triggers the hell plates.
In the case of Encounter 5. This one is weirdly written, basically nothing happens until they players attempt to open a door. As written I don't think there is anyway to not trigger the blood mist. Although I would say that if ALL the characters drink from the pool, the blood mist is not triggered as all of the characters HONORED the goblins. It's a common theme in the tomb.
My problem with this part of the module is that almost nothing happens until the players do something, but each room suggest some sort of puzzle to be solved to pass through safely but ultimately nothing they do (according to the module) really makes a difference. I found that the players spent a lot of time in each room trying to figure something out that wasn't there which basically just seemed like a waste of time.
The final encounter with Ashurta was fun though. I only had one player salute the statue, which was cool because it turned out to be the player that was ultimately going to end up with the sword, so when Ashurta was defeated he handed the player the sword. The encounter was tough and pushed my players to the limit. In the first round I got some lucky initiatives and managed to knock a player unconcious before anyone got to act. After that it was a mad scramble. The wizard used hypnotic pattern and the statue to great effect (using the statue as a monster grinder).
Anyway after three 4 hour online sessions in the tomb I've decided to move on and skip the final kruthik fights.
So for me it's on to some role-playing and the rest of the module. I'm sure I'll cut out little bits later as well. The skill challenge overland is all messed up as well. I think I might just cut it out.
Good luck.
In the case of Encounter 2. You are correct nothing happens if they just walk past. However, my players couldn't leave the two 150gp gems just sitting there. I mean that was almost as much cash as they had seen in one place before. So they triggered the trap for being greedy. If you want the encounter to go of you could just assume opening the eastern doors triggers the hell plates.
In the case of Encounter 5. This one is weirdly written, basically nothing happens until they players attempt to open a door. As written I don't think there is anyway to not trigger the blood mist. Although I would say that if ALL the characters drink from the pool, the blood mist is not triggered as all of the characters HONORED the goblins. It's a common theme in the tomb.
My problem with this part of the module is that almost nothing happens until the players do something, but each room suggest some sort of puzzle to be solved to pass through safely but ultimately nothing they do (according to the module) really makes a difference. I found that the players spent a lot of time in each room trying to figure something out that wasn't there which basically just seemed like a waste of time.
The final encounter with Ashurta was fun though. I only had one player salute the statue, which was cool because it turned out to be the player that was ultimately going to end up with the sword, so when Ashurta was defeated he handed the player the sword. The encounter was tough and pushed my players to the limit. In the first round I got some lucky initiatives and managed to knock a player unconcious before anyone got to act. After that it was a mad scramble. The wizard used hypnotic pattern and the statue to great effect (using the statue as a monster grinder).
Anyway after three 4 hour online sessions in the tomb I've decided to move on and skip the final kruthik fights.
So for me it's on to some role-playing and the rest of the module. I'm sure I'll cut out little bits later as well. The skill challenge overland is all messed up as well. I think I might just cut it out.
Good luck.
Excellent. Thanks for the advice and info. My players are also sort of looking for puzzles and such that may or may not be there but I'm actually pretty happy with that (we'll see if that continues as they push forward, I may have to just make up some stuff so they don't feel like there efforts are completely in vain).
One kind of entertaining effect of the group bypassing the room, is that because the Dragons Maw also has some plates with words on them, they think the two rooms might be connected, so, (until they triggered the trap by opening the doors) they were trying to figure out if there was some way to push some combination of the tiles in the two rooms to disarm something or make something happen. One player was still in the first room when the trap was triggered (and the session ended) so we'll see if he follows up with his plan to "just elevator that" and start pressing all the tiles.
That could be... a little too difficult for the group (fighting both rooms at the same time), but if I can come up with some ways to mitigate things or something that can happen if they all end up unconscious, could be interesting. I could even see some interesting effects if they manage to lure some of the fiendish creatures into the trap.
They had disarmed the locks on the doors before anything happened but I decided just ahead of that time that the locking mechanism and the trigger for the trap were two separate things and that finding the trigger on the doors would be a much more difficult (but possible) perception/thievery check to find. The player making the check almost made it too! So right now they have triggered the trap but the doors are not slammed shut or locked, so in theory if they did have to deal with some feinds they might be able to lure them into the room and then trigger the trap again (after it resets) by shutting and opening the doors again. Could be interesting but we'll have to see what happens.
One kind of entertaining effect of the group bypassing the room, is that because the Dragons Maw also has some plates with words on them, they think the two rooms might be connected, so, (until they triggered the trap by opening the doors) they were trying to figure out if there was some way to push some combination of the tiles in the two rooms to disarm something or make something happen. One player was still in the first room when the trap was triggered (and the session ended) so we'll see if he follows up with his plan to "just elevator that
" and start pressing all the tiles. That could be... a little too difficult for the group (fighting both rooms at the same time), but if I can come up with some ways to mitigate things or something that can happen if they all end up unconscious, could be interesting. I could even see some interesting effects if they manage to lure some of the fiendish creatures into the trap.
They had disarmed the locks on the doors before anything happened but I decided just ahead of that time that the locking mechanism and the trigger for the trap were two separate things and that finding the trigger on the doors would be a much more difficult (but possible) perception/thievery check to find. The player making the check almost made it too! So right now they have triggered the trap but the doors are not slammed shut or locked, so in theory if they did have to deal with some feinds they might be able to lure them into the room and then trigger the trap again (after it resets) by shutting and opening the doors again. Could be interesting but we'll have to see what happens.
Yeah that was my thinking. If that does happen I may just have to severely reduce the effectiveness of the Fire Motes and all of that, or something.... Either that or just do the classic "you all wake up in a prison cell" or... something. But I should probably figure it out pretty soon, since we're playing again tomorrow!
That reflects my experience quite well.
One of my players was exceptionally greedy and basically triggered every room/trap making my job easy. Everyone refused to drink from the pool and noone thought of saluting the statue. The Ashurta fight initially almost looked like a tpk and it took a concerted action to turn it around again. The final kruthik fight was very anti-climactic by comparison (especially since everyone had already gained a level at that point).
They fiddled endlessly with the first riddle room. They got blasted time and again because they thought a combination of occupying pressure plates and pulling the statue lever would get them anywhere.
Still, I'm looking forward to continuing the module. Even with all its faults, it's better than most of WotCs adventures so far.
So I'm plannnig on doing a bunch of the next roleplaying stuff after the tomb via e-mail so my next session will take place when the characters are on there way to meet the wordbearers.
So next is an overland skill challenge that is ATROCIOUSLY written. It makes ZERO sense as written.
Anyone have any ideas on this one?
Also there are 3 encounters here that mostly seem like filler, so i'm sure I could just cut them out (although I've already made the maptool tokens for them all, so it seems a shame to waste my effort).
I'd like to run the Tukabar fight just because it has a few new creatures the players haven't faced.
I'll keep posting anything that I experience or come up with here for you all. Now I need to update my story hours.
So next is an overland skill challenge that is ATROCIOUSLY written. It makes ZERO sense as written.
Anyone have any ideas on this one?
Also there are 3 encounters here that mostly seem like filler, so i'm sure I could just cut them out (although I've already made the maptool tokens for them all, so it seems a shame to waste my effort).
I'd like to run the Tukabar fight just because it has a few new creatures the players haven't faced.
I'll keep posting anything that I experience or come up with here for you all. Now I need to update my story hours.
How many people have found that anyone came up with the idea to salute or honor the statue in some way? I'm considering putting some sort of inscription somewhere that'll at least offer a clue that that's what they're supposed to do, even if it's fairly cryptic.
I want to give my players at least a chance to think of it, as I actually think idea of them showing respect and then getting to do the RP of Ashtura talking to them in that context during the fight is pretty cool, and would be something they would really enjoy.
I want to give my players at least a chance to think of it, as I actually think idea of them showing respect and then getting to do the RP of Ashtura talking to them in that context during the fight is pretty cool, and would be something they would really enjoy.
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71gamer
First Post
Don't skip it. That's almost 3,000XP you're going to have to make up elsewhere.
For the record, my party figured out the stone plate puzzle and bypassed everything in that damn dungeon (cautious group--plus most of us have been playing since the 80s, lol. Damn group took almost half an hour talking about it.), I had to figure out where to get that XP back for the party!
Those encounters aren't filler! They are great RP/plot moments!
...obviously tweaking the goals and rewards to fit the campaign. I run my game with maptools as well, and could almost hear five heads hitting their keyboards when it was 'endurance time' again. And I framed it in RP, believe me--the challenge just sucks. But here's how it's supposed to work:
Do your daily challenge, individual failures consume a healing surge (and the scavenge/nature failure consumes one from EVERYONE), if the party as a whole succeeds, then you get a success, and start combat (the consumed healing surges are punishment for failing).
All three of those encounters have the skill check before them.
And if the group fails as a whole, e.g. more fails than successes, use one of the random combats as 'punishment'. blah. Like a campaign needs to be longer--and when has combat EVER been punishment for a party, lol. that's what they live for!
I love Eberron, and I think this modula has been fun as hell, but the typos, sloppy encounters (Ashurta's 22AC vs level 2 PCs? really?), and just badness really hurt me inside.
Anyways, good luck--I would tweak your skill check to be more interesting and just go for it! Please post your experiences, I am curious how other people handled this.
Oh, a huge page on skill checks
For the record, my party figured out the stone plate puzzle and bypassed everything in that damn dungeon (cautious group--plus most of us have been playing since the 80s, lol. Damn group took almost half an hour talking about it.), I had to figure out where to get that XP back for the party!
Those encounters aren't filler! They are great RP/plot moments!
- Scout's Lucky Day: you rescue a kech volaar, and he owes you now, and you'll meet him later. Plus you get to kill some Emerald Claw
- Pay or Play: Minotaur? why the hell would you pass that up! Goblin lover! It's a fun fight tho, seriously--he charges and hits like a truck.
- Unwelcome Surprise: seriously man, this is what eberron is all about--this is an Emerald Claw officer going against Demise's will, trying to intercept you and/or the kech volaar, and steal the artifact for himself!!!
...obviously tweaking the goals and rewards to fit the campaign. I run my game with maptools as well, and could almost hear five heads hitting their keyboards when it was 'endurance time' again. And I framed it in RP, believe me--the challenge just sucks. But here's how it's supposed to work:
Do your daily challenge, individual failures consume a healing surge (and the scavenge/nature failure consumes one from EVERYONE), if the party as a whole succeeds, then you get a success, and start combat (the consumed healing surges are punishment for failing).
All three of those encounters have the skill check before them.
And if the group fails as a whole, e.g. more fails than successes, use one of the random combats as 'punishment'. blah. Like a campaign needs to be longer--and when has combat EVER been punishment for a party, lol. that's what they live for!
I love Eberron, and I think this modula has been fun as hell, but the typos, sloppy encounters (Ashurta's 22AC vs level 2 PCs? really?), and just badness really hurt me inside.
Anyways, good luck--I would tweak your skill check to be more interesting and just go for it! Please post your experiences, I am curious how other people handled this.
Oh, a huge page on skill checks
So I'm plannnig on doing a bunch of the next roleplaying stuff after the tomb via e-mail so my next session will take place when the characters are on there way to meet the wordbearers.
So next is an overland skill challenge that is ATROCIOUSLY written. It makes ZERO sense as written.
Anyone have any ideas on this one?
Also there are 3 encounters here that mostly seem like filler, so i'm sure I could just cut them out (although I've already made the maptool tokens for them all, so it seems a shame to waste my effort).
I'd like to run the Tukabar fight just because it has a few new creatures the players haven't faced.
I'll keep posting anything that I experience or come up with here for you all. Now I need to update my story hours.
