Seeking Advice: How to motivate players to role play more

[Roger_the_jolly]

With respect, I think your approach is a little arrogant. You seem to be saying "I know best".

My players DON'T want an immersive role-play experience, in general. I've tried. I love immersive role-playing. Some of the best games I've ever had have been those. But I have stopped trying to lead my players because it's simply not what they want.

I think you are in danger of alienating your players by assuming you know what's best for them.

I'm sorry if I seem to sound this way, this was not my intention.
What I wanted to say was more along the lines of how can you know it is not for you if you won't at least give it one try?
You seem to have taken the same attitude in your game as you say that you tried it with your players and when you saw it was not to be you left it behind.

 

[xechnao]

Can't be done mechanically. I wish it could--man, do I wish it could--but it can't.

Sure, you can nudge people a little bit. But at the end of the day, people who want to roleplay will, and people who don't want to roleplay won't. And there's nothing the former can do to make the latter participate, at least not without causing more problems than it solves.

Mechanics aren't the solution. All I can suggest is talk to the players and ask if they're willing to give your way a try. If they are, great. You can give them advice, and since they're trying, maybe then some mechanical incentives would help. But if they're not prepared to try, there's not a thing in the world you can do to make 'em.

I disagree. You can have mechanics that in contest with the PC's role or class in the story allow him to direct the story through the mechanics. The fact D&D or other commercial rpgs do not have them it does not mean that it can't be done -even in a traditional rpg design way.

 

[Roger_the_jolly]

I disagree. You can have mechanics that in contest with the PC's role or class in the story allow him to direct the story through the mechanics. The fact D&D or other commercial rpgs do not have them it does not mean that it can't be done -even in a traditional rpg design way.

Can you give an example?

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I voted "Other" because none of the options will work for every player.

Let's face it... Role Playing all depends on your players. IME there are two extremes of D&D players... Tactical Wargamers and Method Actors. If you are lucky you'll have some players that fall within those two extremes. The bulk of the players I've gamed with are Tactical Wargamers (though they'd never admit it... they don't play Warhammer). To a TW everything is a build-up to a combat session. The story justifies the combat but what they are really looking forward to are the minis on the battlemat and the roll of the dice. They really come alive in a game when they are rolling attack and damage dice and are counting out movement squares. Some TWs aren't comfortable with pure Role Playing which is the province of the other extreme... the Method Actor. MAs get bored during combat because in their mind combat just delays the opportunity to role-play and move the story forward.

Very rarely have I met a player that enjoyed both in equal measure. Both are totally valid play styles. It seems that you might want more MA's in your group but I think it is wrong to force your TW's to role-play if they aren't comfortable with it. I find that the best way to "encourage" role-playing is to have the "active" player to stand up with the DM and address the DM as they would the NPC. Obviously if the player has a PC with a high score in Diplomacy or Bluff you should still rely on the outcome of a dice roll but if they do a particularly good job of "acting it out" you could give them a bonus to the roll or just rule that they succeeded based on their acting. I think that just getting up and standing in front of the other players kind of wakes up the performer in all of us. It's worked for me and other players in every instance where role-playing was the desired method of encounter resolution.

Hope this helps!

 

[Roger_the_jolly]

I find that the best way to "encourage" role-playing is to have the "active" player to stand up with the DM and address the DM as they would the NPC. Obviously if the player has a PC with a high score in Diplomacy or Bluff you should still rely on the outcome of a dice roll but if they do a particularly good job of "acting it out" you could give them a bonus to the roll or just rule that they succeeded based on their acting. I think that just getting up and standing in front of the other players kind of wakes up the performer in all of us. It's worked for me and other players in every instance where role-playing was the desired method of encounter resolution.

Hope this helps!

I like that!
Need to see if they would like it too

 

[xechnao]

Can you give an example?

Conspiracy X first edition: resources. Cadwallon: attitudes and contacts or however they are called (don't remember). D&D: alignment. Reign: whole game system. Marvel roleplaying game: advancement mechanic.

Most are not really functionally evocative (example D&D alignment system). But it can be achieved. What you need to do is design a system that controls in an attractive way how different attitudes interact amongst them AND in respect to your own class or role powers. So this must be a strategic and tactical element of your teamplay regarding plot/adventure resolution.

 

[Roger_the_jolly]

Conspiracy X first edition: resources. Cadwallon: attitudes and contacts or however they are called (don't remember). D&D: alignment. Reign: whole game system. Marvel roleplaying game: advancement mechanic.

Most are not really functionally evocative (example D&D alignment system). But it can be achieved. What you need to do is design a system that controls in an attractive way how different attitudes interact amongst them AND in respect to your own class or role powers. So this must be a strategic and tactical element of your teamplay regarding plot/adventure resolution.

ahmmm, I think I will let this idea rattle a bit in my mind and see what comes up
Thanks!

 

[Orryn Emrys]

I don't think there's a right answer to this one. You can try different things, but I'd advise you to be diligent in their degree of success, moderating their application as necessary. What you implement as a reward for those capable of or interested in "deeper" roleplaying may very well turn out to be a punishment for those who aren't.

I do, however, submit the following tale.

About two years ago, I moved. My old group had, with a few variations, been gaming together for about thirteen years. Back then, when I was only reluctantly considering finally making the switch to 2nd Edition, my games had a lot of the elements that were common from the games I played in the 80s... they were very combat-oriented with fairly two-ply characters. (At least I had finally put my Monty Haul tendencies behind me.)

Then, in late '92, a new gamer in town dropped into my group and, without ever realizing what he was doing, managed to completely transform my group's play style. He had only played D&D for a few short years, but his previous group had been extremely character-oriented, where the players focused on roleplaying and character development like they were a group of playwrights. And this was how he played D&D. And I had a front-row seat to one of the most fascinating phenomena I have ever had the joy to witness.

It was inspiring. By carelessly treating his PC as an actual person, with individual motives and agendas and a full range of human emotions, he injected my group with a type of frenzy to explore this alternative approach to characterization. I was actually caught entirely off guard when the players started eating up huge swaths of game time with in-character discussions, roleplaying with NPCs, and an investment in setting up dramatic scenes. I wasted no time feeding this movement, bringing NPCs to life with a new depth and exploring the players' emotional investment in their characters. I spent the next several years learning how my players responded to various stimuli, establishing a level of drama appropriate to each individual interest.

Now don't get me wrong... some players jumped headlong into method-acting, others didn't. I still had a powergamer and a strategist in the group, and one guy who was more interested in his character's cool powers than his personality, but they all tuned in to the games potential for character development because it gave them the opportunity to be individuals in a powerfully group-oriented construct. The other players may or may not be interested in how kick-ass you are, but they were always interested in what your character thought about the situation, or how she felt, etcetera, etcetera...

But two years ago, in the wake of my divorce and pursuit of a new romance, I moved to a new town and quickly collected a new group of gamers. They were old-school, gaming with another group on a different night that (unknown to me at the time) was generally a very hack-and-slash type of unit. Without really knowing what I was getting into, I got things rolling in the manner I always did. I constructed adventure material that was packed with exciting combat challenges but also explored the individual characters' responses to dramatic elements couched in the midst of the adventure. I was trying to get to know both the players and their characters, without realizing that they weren't even in the habit of getting to know their own characters.

If I'd been as cocky as I'd gotten with my old group, this would have been very risky. But I never assumed that anything I offered would be precisely what they wanted, so I mined them for feedback, watched their reactions, and took their cues when constructed further adventure material. And they responded very well... but not to the degree my original group had.

I think one of the main reasons that my prior group had been so malleable, so easily inspired, was because we were younger. We were college kids. And anyone who's reached their 30s can pretty much corroborate that we are a lot less prone to radical change of our core persona than we were when we were younger. And that includes what we look for in our primary entertainments. As gamers, we are a product of our experiences. We can still adjust to new ideas, particularly if they represent a possibility we've never previously encountered, but we're always going to be most comfortable with the things we've enjoyed all along. Most of us are no longer looking for an innovative gaming experience. We know what we like about our D&D game.

And of course it's important to recognize that there is nothing wrong with hack-and-slash, powergaming, wargaming, a focus on your character's cool new powers, a fondness for problem-solving... nothing wrong with any of that in your D&D. If it's not what I want out of my game, as the DM, then it behooves me to inject the elements that most interest me. So my NPCs are dynamic and loaded with personality, my campaigns include character-driven plot elements... and my hack-and-slashers are slowly turning into roleplayers.

Life is good.

Sorry for the long-windedness. I hope this can provide some inspiration, or at least a ray of hope for those in similarly difficult circumstances.

 

[Roger_the_jolly]

I don't think there's a right answer to this one. You can try different things, but I'd advise you to be diligent in their degree of success, moderating their application as necessary. What you implement as a reward for those capable of or interested in "deeper" roleplaying may very well turn out to be a punishment for those who aren't.

I do, however, submit the following tale.

... Snip ...

So my NPCs are dynamic and loaded with personality, my campaigns include character-driven plot elements... and my hack-and-slashers are slowly turning into roleplayers.

Life is good.

Sorry for the long-windedness. I hope this can provide some inspiration, or at least a ray of hope for those in similarly difficult circumstances.

Taking into account all the good ideas people posted in response to this thread, I'm starting to feel hope for me someday in the future posting a similar tale.

Thanks Orryn!

 

[pawsplay]

To encourage roleplay, roleplay, and make the interactions worthwhile to the players.