Seer power confusion

[Kaljamaha]

I have an eigth level seer, that will hopefully gain a level in the near future. I was looking over the fifth level powers and I am confused by two possible choices. Curiously, they're both discipline powers.

Clairtangent Hand: It say you can emulate Far hand, and later on some of the telekinetic powers. I take it this means my characters doesn't need to actually know either or Far hand or Clairvoyant Sense in order to use this power? My character knows Clairvoyant Sense, but it would be a huge waste to pick Far Hand at this point.

Second Chance: This one is confusing. The text seems to clearly indicate (at least to me, and while I'm not a native speaker, I consider myself fluent in english) that you can reroll one roll per round. But but! The duration says "1 round/level or until discharged". Soo... it would seem that the power allows you to reroll one roll per round but ends after your first reroll? I really can't figure this one out.


K.

 

[Pyrex]

Second Chance is poorly written. I suspect the intent is that you can use it once then you need to cast it again.

 

[Camarath]

I do not believe you need to Far hand or Clairvoyant Sense to emulate the effect of either power with Clairtangent Hand.

I think as written Second Chance allows you to reroll one roll per round. The "until discharged" portion of the duration line would seem to indicate that the authors may have intended for the power to end after one reroll but as written I see no provision for the power to be discharged. So as far as I can see "or until discharged" has no in game function.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Second Chance is poorly written. I suspect the intent is that you can use it once then you need to cast it again.

I agree with this assessment. You never know when you might need to reroll something. This spell at least gives you a couple of rounds to decide if you should reroll. Perhaps it would be better as a Swift spell that allows you to immediately reroll. Unfortunately, they never asked me my input when designing XPH

 

[Kaljamaha]

Thanks for the answers. I'll have to try and convice my DM that Second Chance gives multiple rerolls. I have a followup question about Clairtangnet Hand. Can I augment the emulated Far Hand, or later the telekinetic powers? If so, how many power points does it cost?


K.

 

[helium3]

Thanks for the answers. I'll have to try and convice my DM that Second Chance gives multiple rerolls. I have a followup question about Clairtangnet Hand. Can I augment the emulated Far Hand, or later the telekinetic powers? If so, how many power points does it cost?


K.

Your DM's going to get upset if you try to argue that the Second Chance gives you the opportunity to re-roll one thing every round for as long as the power lasts. The part with "until discharged" being in there pretty clearly indicates it's only supposed to work once. It's a poorly written power. Arguing that you can do something just because RAW let's you is a good way to get something banned.

As for Clairtangent Hand, it works like this. You mentally view an area just like clairvoyant sense and then you can move stuff within your mental "line of sight" with the power Far Hand. You don't have to have Far Hand or any of the other powers to do that. They come wrapped up as part of Clairtangent Hand. You could even use Clairtangent Hand to emulate Far Hand in your own area, as if you had the power normally. It doesn't have to be somewhere that you can't see.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Perhaps it would be better as a Swift spell that allows you to immediately reroll.

Yes, but then they'd have to call it fate of one and make it a 7th level seer power.

 

[helium3]

Yes, but then they'd have to call it fate of one and make it a 7th level seer power.

Heh heh. Good point. That also lends credence to the idea that the 4th level power only allows you to re-roll one roll per manifestation. If it allowed multiple rolls, it would be more powerful than Fate of One at a lower level, which makes zero sense.

 

[Kaljamaha]

Well, I don't know if I'd be willing to spend 9 pp and an action to have one reroll in the next minute or so. In combat I'd much rather be doing stuff actively harmful to the enemy (especially with a 5th level power), and out of combat I guess you could use this for skill rolls, but I already have Call to Mind. Anyway, my DM said one reroll, so that's that, I'll pick another power.

My question concerning Clairtangent Hand was this: Say I manifest it to look behind a door, and see that the door is barred. The bar weighs more than 5 lbs. Can I augment the Far Hand portion of the power to move the bar, as I could augment a "normal" Far Hand?


K.

 

[helium3]

Well, I don't know if I'd be willing to spend 9 pp and an action to have one reroll in the next minute or so. In combat I'd much rather be doing stuff actively harmful to the enemy (especially with a 5th level power), and out of combat I guess you could use this for skill rolls, but I already have Call to Mind. Anyway, my DM said one reroll, so that's that, I'll pick another power.

My question concerning Clairtangent Hand was this: Say I manifest it to look behind a door, and see that the door is barred. The bar weighs more than 5 lbs. Can I augment the Far Hand portion of the power to move the bar, as I could augment a "normal" Far Hand?


K.

I agree, it doesn't sound like a very good power. I wouldn't take it. Not sure how I'd "improve" it were I inclined to do that. I've never seen it in play. Maybe it isn't as weak as it seems.

As for the Clairtangent Hand question, all I can say with certainty is "that is a really good question." As far as I know, there's nothing specific about how to handle emulating powers in the RAW. The text of the power says that the emulated far hand works exactly like the description of the Far Hand power itself. So, I would interpret that to mean that you can augment it just like a normal Far Hand power. Others might argue that you cannot augment the emulated Far Hand in this fashion because the augmentation rules for Clairtangent Hand do not contain a provision for augmenting the emulation other than to the three versions of telekinesis. A literal interpretation of the rules would probably support this. My understanding of "RAW Analysis" is that there are no implicit rules in the game. Thus, humans aren't humanoids and don't really need to sleep, breathe or eat. They just do it because it's fun and they like to fit in. But, that's beside the point.

In the end, it's pretty much up to your DM, depending on how much of a RAWmonkey he is. I think a reasonable ruling is that you can augment the Far Hand when manifesting the Clairtangent Hand, and you can tell him I said so.