self-publishing

Morrus said:
Ahem! But make sure you read the announcement at the top of every forum here first. Using the boards as your personal free marketing tool will get make you very unpopular very quickly! :)

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest any abuse of the service provided by this or any other similar site. But through posting simple press releases about your products here and other sites you'll get as some expusure for you product. I suppose the key thing is to make sure you're following a pricipal of informing people as opposed to giving it the hard sell.

My main point was that, for the small hobby publisher there's little mileage in spending money on advertising. Having tried it in the past, we could see no discernable benefit from the advertising we'd paid for. Other publishers might have experienced better results, but I'm just talking from our experience.

Cheerio,

Ben
 

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Well,
You should still have my email and can contact me off-post for more information, but a few general comments.

"I want to maximize what little profit there is."
Um, how much is your time worth. Being "only an author" on a book might not make as much as being both the publisher and the author, but I can guarantee that if your time is worth something to you, the "return" on being both is not really very good.

As far as control of layout, content, publishing rights, copyright, etc. How much $ are you really willing to spend to retain that control?

Publishing, particularly print publishing, is far more involved than many initially believe.
First, you need to set up a business entity, it varies from state to state as to what types of small businesses or corporations you can set up. Figure that this will cost in the neighborhood of $200-500. You might get by for $100 using online forms and avoiding a lawyer.

Second, you'll need tax ID# for the business and a banking account (banks tend to gouge small business bank accounts, shop around).

Third, you'll need ISBN #'s if you are going to be a print publisher (doesn't need to be done immediately, but you need to have some before advertising to distributors and setting up distribution). I used to know off the top of my head how much this cost, I simply can't recall now. I think you need to get about 10 ISBN #s for a lump sum price, might be about $250, someone else will remember here.

By now, you have spent between $400-1000 and you haven't even started on the book yet. If I recall you have a legal background of some sort, you'll still need legal contracts, etc. for art, this could cost more $ as well. After this costs get vary variable. Some possible costs that could get large:

Cover Art: if you are going to use color cover art be prepared to shop around. Expect to spend $500-1000+ for really good cover art. You can probably license some things for less, you really need to shop around if you want to control costs on this.

Interior Art/Cartography: this can be another major expense. It can be brought down somewhat, but you really have to shop around here as well. Guidelines we use would suggest you need about 54 pieces of 1/4 page interior art/maps.

By the way, "shop around" here means "spend lots and lots of valuable time doing nothing but ..."

If you are doing your own layout you need layout software. I STRONGLY recommend that you have your own, legal, copy of layout software this is a major expense. If you contract someone to do it, the software is their business expense. Contracting for editing, etc. is all going to be variable in costs. As for printing, you'll need to "shop around."

Once you get all that down, you still need to find a distributor willing to carry you. This is a major hurdle if you are going print. Not so bad if you are going to publish as .pdf.

Time for me to take some kids to school, you can email me with more questions if you want. I strongly advise against self-publishing if you are only doing one book. The costs are ridiculous and won't "maximize" any profits. If you are going to publish 10 books, that might be different.

Patrick
Edit: can't spell and started the post last night, some people above have better suggestions for "cheaper" art, layout, etc. Still going to cost you tons of time. Unless you have many more books than 1 planned, I still suggest finding a publisher willing to carry your book for you.

olshanski said:
I have capital.
I have only one large MS.
I do not want to give up much control of layout or content.
I do not want to give up e-publishing rights.
I do not want to give up rights to update, port to other systems, or reprint.
I think the MS is very very good.
I want to maximize what little profit there is.

I dont think I can find a publisher to give me all of the above. I will not quit my day job in any case.

I'd still appreciate more responses/warnings/or answers to original Q.
 
Last edited:

MS=manuscript.

Well, I've given some more thought.
I do have plenty of capital ($20,000+) but I was hoping to get by with spending only $10k-15k.
I have access to corporate and copyright lawyers, artists, and professional (licenced) layout software. My wife has experience setting up small businesses.
It was my belief that establishing a relationship with a distributor and marketing would be the largest hurdles to manage.

My nitpicks about layout and content are pretty minor... examples: I like the DMG2 stat block; I like how Goodman and AEG keep the stat blocks adjacent to the encounter; I am very fond of including a few player handouts; I have some ideas on which encounters would benefit most from art. I am sure I could work things out with an established publisher if my work is as good as I think it is. I'd probably be willing to concede most of the points above, but I'd prefer not to have to.

I'll keep self-e-publishing on the backburner for now. I'll concentate on finishing the MS.
Thanks for the feedback. Especially Patrick Lawinger and Fate Lawson. Fate Lawson's idea is excellent. Unfortunately, the linked-adventures can be run solo, but occur in a pair of large evolving dungeons. Publishing piecemeal would be a difficult unraveling operation. The adventure is written so that it can be run as small multi-session adventures, or the players could be set loose to explore everything as-is, without following any set path... sort of made to give the DM as much leeway as possible depending on thier style.
 

olshanski said:
MS=manuscript.
Well, I've given some more thought.
I do have plenty of capital ($20,000+) but I was hoping to get by with spending only $10k-15k.
I have access to corporate and copyright lawyers, artists, and professional (licenced) layout software. My wife has experience setting up small businesses.
It was my belief that establishing a relationship with a distributor and marketing would be the largest hurdles to manage.

If you have that much cash plan to spend $10,000 on marketing, write up a marketing plan, and approach someone like Impressions. Aldo is a smart businessman and will listen to anyone with an excellent marketing plan, product, and the funds to back the project.
 

I don't want to discourage you, you definitely have enough money to do this. The question is, how much of it do you want to lose?

You are right about one thing, distribution/marketing is a major hurdle that would require a major expense of time and money. It is the one main thing that has me suggesting you go with an established publisher.

If this is the same work that I have seen part of, it is definitely good and publishable. Right now you have relatively few choices for publishing adventures and/or for publishing something as large as 200,000 words (this is about 256 pages, possibly less depending on layout and art).

Necromancer Games - we have our schedule essentially full through the end of 2006, and that means through WW, Kenzer, and Troll Lords. A completed manuscript might be squeezed out in 2006 but I wouldn't guarantee it.

Goodman Games - I don't think Joe is publishing large mega-adventures or adventure collections. He is a great guy, and does this for a living so if he is interested I think you'd see a finished product sooner. The only way to find out is to contact him about it.

Green Ronin - they did put out an open call for smaller adventures and I think they might have some adventure collections on the way. I would suggest contacting Robert Schwalb as he should be able to tell you if GR is interested.

Troll Lord Games - with the exception of a few Necromancer Games things, I believe that TLG is doing more with Castles and Crusades and not planning d20 material right now. If you wow Steve, who knows what can happen.

Based on discussions at GenCon, I think the other larger publishers, AEG, FFG, Mongoose, SSS/WW, are avoiding base d20 material and concentrating on their other game systems and/or licensed products.

There are other small publishers that might be interested. I don't know any of those as well as the ones I mentioned above. I think those might want to try for something that they can keep "soft cover" to cut down on risks.

I honestly think it is worth the effort to check into publishing your book with someone else. It might be a hassle at first, but it won't be anything compared to dealing with setting up a business entity, accounting, marketing, distribution, etc.

Now, if you were planning to really go into business, that would be different. In your particular case, I really think you should publish through someone else. If you want more ideas of smaller companies that might be interested let me know. You should still have my email address, if not, the email associated with this board ID will go to a yahoo box and I'll get that within a few days.

None of this is fast btw, whether you do it yourself or do it with someone else. If your manuscript is done today you are still not likely to see a finished product until 2006.

Patrick
 

Well, considering you are there with money in your hands... I'd like to throw my hat in the ring as a possibility.

You have money to use / We have staff
Hire Dark Quest Games as your own personal design studio. You allocate the budget, we get the job done. Less headaches for you.

:)
 

tensen said:
Well, considering you are there with money in your hands... I'd like to throw my hat in the ring as a possibility.

You have money to use / We have staff
Hire Dark Quest Games as your own personal design studio. You allocate the budget, we get the job done. Less headaches for you.

:)

And it's the best way to approach the problems of publishing in today's market.
 

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