Sell Me on OSE

[reelo]

Emphasis mine. That's the part that makes it suspect: traditional or not, it's problematic and could easily have been changed by the author. Since it wasn't, the author is telling us they prefer these sorts of tropes in their world building, so expect more like it.

I wouldn't quite say "prefer" but rather "accept for what they are". The setting is, despite being very whimsy, quite mature and morally ambiguous.

 

[Reynard]

I wouldn't quite say "prefer" but rather "accept for what they are". The setting is, despite being very whimsy, quite mature and morally ambiguous.

The author literally can't "accept [things] for what they are" because they, by definition, determine what things are. An author isn't bound by some pre-exsiting trope; they decide whether to include it or not. This author chose to do so, and therefore it is likely they will do so throughout the work. Of course that's their right but they shouldn't be surprised if some people decide to reject the work out of hand because they find those tropes problematic. There are a million ways to do "witches" without leaning into "women as either monsters or sex objects" trope.

 

[Aldarc]

Ah yes, I just re-read the faction write-up, I see what you mean. Well, it's something that doesn't really need to come up during gameplay, the witches are still one of the major factions and source of intrigue in Dolmenwood. How and why they get their powers can (more or less easily) be changed, I guess.
Dolmenwood being largely based on folk-horror and fairytale-weirdness, some things like these are to be expected. I suppose it's a conscious decision and deliberate choice.

When my partner saw this, they said (to the effect of), "This is the sort of writing about women that screams 'THIS SETTING WAS WRITTEN BY A CIS DUDE!'"

I still overall find a lot to like about Dolmenwood, such as its more localized dark fairytale Europe feel. This world-building detail, however minor, was a bit off-putting of a design choice. Also this is no way detracts from my recommendation of OSE.

 

[reelo]

When my partner saw this, they said (to the effect of), "This is the sort of writing about women that screams 'THIS SETTING WAS WRITTEN BY A CIS DUDE!'"

In Gavin's defense, the setting has some (influential!) LGB NPCs, genderfluid entities, the interior and exterior art features lots of female artists, so in general I think he's aware of cultural sensitivities. But over here in Europe the whole discourse is a lot less, shall we say, "hysterical", and more rational and grounded.

 

[bennet]

wh

When my partner saw this, they said (to the effect of), "This is the sort of writing about women that screams 'THIS SETTING WAS WRITTEN BY A CIS DUDE!'"

I still overall find a lot to like about Dolmenwood, such as its more localized dark fairytale Europe feel. This world-building detail, however minor, was a bit off-putting of a design choice. Also this is no way detracts from my recommendation of OSE.

why does everything have to turn into a gender based attack? Its the same with college students I know today, all they talk about is how bi they are (with never having had sex) and how bad cis white males are (who often have done more bi things than they even dreamed of..).

can't we leave the gender politics out for a change? enworld is just turning into a naughty word storm of gender and race politics. that orcs thread being going on for 1000 pages now.

 

[Reynard]

wh

why does everything have to turn into a gender based attack?

Maybe read it again:

A woman said, "This is the sort of writing about women that screams "THIS SETTING WAS WRITTEN BY A CIS DUDE!"

It is important to listen when people tell you how they feel about how they are being treated, particularly by institutions (including small press publishing companies). I don't want to put words in @Aldarc 's wife's mouth, but it sound to me like she felt frustrated with the use of the "women evil" trope as well as felt excluded by the component. That's the kind of things we -- creators and community -- should be aware of. Again, that doesn't mean it isn't "allowed" but it does mean that you don't get to include it -- in your book or at your table -- and then be surprised when some people decide your game isn't the kind of thing they want to engage in or support.

 

[Aldarc]

In Gavin's defense, the setting has some (influential!) LGB NPCs, genderfluid entities, the interior and exterior art features lots of female artists, so in general I think he's aware of cultural sensitivities. But over here in Europe the whole discourse is a lot less, shall we say, "hysterical", and more rational and grounded.

You have spoken on Gavin's defense, but now who will speak on yours? Both my partner and I are "over here in Europe" - Austria to be precise - and I am not sure if I necessarily agree with your characterization of the differences in discourse. IMHO, your defense of the author and setting would have been FAR BETTER OFF without the last sentence. I feel you have done more to harm than help your cause.

 

[reelo]

You have spoken on Gavin's defense, but now who will speak on yours? Both my partner and I are "over here in Europe" - Austria to be precise - and I am not sure if I necessarily agree with your characterization of the differences in discourse. IMHO, your defense of the author and setting would have been FAR BETTER OFF without the last sentence. I feel you have done more to harm than help your cause.

If that is so, let me extend my sincere apologies. It was certainly not my intention. All I can say regarding the faction of the Dolmenwood witches is, that they are most certainly not an evil faction. All major factions (7, iirc) considered, the witches are Neutral. They have their own motives and intrigues. You could maybe liken them to Dune's Bene Gesserit in terms of morality.

 

[reelo]

Can't we leave the gender politics out for a change? enworld is just turning into a naughty word storm of gender and race politics. that orcs thread being going on for 1000 pages now.

No, I think the subject matter is important enough to be discussed when it comes up. I might be moderate in my approach, and certainly less zealous than younger generations when it comes to taking action (read: I prefer using a scalpel rather than a sledgehammer) but I consider myself on the left side of politics and as such acknowledge the importance of the matter.

 

[Umbran]

can't we leave the gender politics out for a change?

Mod Note:

So, having not been in the thread before, you step in and gripe about how others were having a perfectly reasonable discussion?

Here's a hint - if you don't want to see discussions about gender representation in games, don't willfully insert yourself into discussions about it.

Go find a thread that doesn't set you off so, as you won't be posting in this one any further.