Pathfinder 1E Sell me on Pathfinder!

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What I found was a lot of annoying little changes, similar to when 3.5 came out and made a lot of little changes that made you go back and double-check everything. In addition they increased the power level of all classes, which made most of our previous 3.5 books a lot of trouble to balance out with the current classes. We had a few of the players that had classes from Arcana Unearthed, Complete Warrior, etc. Those players were always playing second fiddle to the much more powerful Pathfinder Classes. Higher levels are still very difficult to run and balance. I'd say it's even harder since the classes are more powerful.

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Arcana Unearthed was 3.0. The classes in Arcana Evolved are more powerful. The base classes in complete Warrior are considered the weakest base classes in the complete line. The classes in Pf fit well in with the primary spellcasters, ToB classes and the classes in the PH2.

Can't you replicate this with same-CR creatures (or maybe 1-2 CR's lower) with minimum hit points instead of average? and deals minimum damage on a hit? This is more or less the formula 4E uses.

Very good idea :)

.. are there still "newbie trap" choices in the game like Toughness was in 3.5?... .

Some traps are still in, but Toughness had actually become a pretty decent feat.

Pathfinder breaks as many things as it manages (or attempts) to fix, IMO.

Fighters got nerfed hard, with PA being less effective and combat maneuvers (namely improved trip) no longer working as well (and that is saying something, considering you were already struggling to use them effectively in 3.5!). The designers got this funny idea that maneuvers ought to be harder to use successfully against tougher foes. This leads to the problematic scenario of players favouring the pure-attack route and eschewing combat maneuvers even more despite the new streamlined mechanic, because tripping is more risky than ever, and you don't need to trip weaker foes.

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Sadly true. The CMB idea was genius, but there is still work to do!


Might be worth a try then...

If you want to try it outside your regular group, there is a nascent Living Pathfinder group on this very board:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/group.php?groupid=105
 
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Pathfinder breaks as many things as it manages (or attempts) to fix, IMO.

Fighters got nerfed hard, with PA being less effective and combat maneuvers (namely improved trip) no longer working as well (and that is saying something, considering you were already struggling to use them effectively in 3.5!). The designers got this funny idea that maneuvers ought to be harder to use successfully against tougher foes. This leads to the problematic scenario of players favouring the pure-attack route and eschewing combat maneuvers even more despite the new streamlined mechanic, because tripping is more risky than ever, and you don't need to trip weaker foes.

In a nutshell, the designers knew 3.5e was broken and tried to fix it, except that they didn't really know what made 3.5e broken in the first place! So my conclusion is that pathfinder is simply different, and not necessarily any better or worse off than 3.5e. The art is excellent though. Use with a grain of salt and an open mind. ;)

Everyone's experiences are different, I suppose, but I haven't seen anything closely resembling this. Fighters got additional class features that make them more effective in combat, better feat options across all levels of play. CMB/CMD went a long way to making special manuevers more accessible.

Perhaps it's just a playstyle thing. I've seen more uses of special tactics as a result rather than fewer. However, my players are making those choices based on tactical relevance & the desire to do something cool. I've yet to see them calculate the odds before declaring an action. YMMV.

It's fascinating to me to see posts/threads arguing both sides of the issue at the same time (fighters got supe'd up/nerfed; wizards got nerf'd; clerics are better CODzillas/got nerfed...). The only thing I can take away from that is that all claims of brokeness have a really big subjective measurement component to them.

Taken as a whole, I'd say the following of Pathfinder:
1. It remains true to the core of 3.x gaming

2. It narrows the disparity amongst the classes.

3. It has a stated goal of only utilizing new base classes where necessary/appropriate rather than to drive splat books. It will be interesting to see the final product, but I'm anticipating that the Advanced Players Guide will provide enough variant class abilities that a lot of additional base classes will be rendered unnecessary.

4. Its existence is owed to the desire to preserve the Paizo business model of publishing adventures. Y'know, telling shared stories with the game? The reason everyone started playing in the first place!

Game mechanics without role-playing, adventures, and settings are just an exercise in rolling dice and crunching numbers. Although I like my crunch as well as the next person, I think too many game companies forget this.
 
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Yes, this [minion 4e house rule] could be replicated, but in Pathfinder Society games, only official material is used. Herein is where the rubber hits the road detailing shortcomings of systems.

For the home game, I use plenty of house rules..namely, that my players don't ever find stat-bumping items and that I actually do use minions ;) Good tip!~

jh
 
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I would agree that 3.5 and Pathfinder both break at level 14 or so..thankfully, none of my games ever get that high and even the Pathfinder Society Open Play (Living Pathfinder) games are capped at Level 12.

;)

jh
 

Pathfinder was made by people who prioritise fluff over mechanics and is based on a tweaked 3.5 core. If that sounds very good, it's probably for you. If it sounds horrible, avoid.
 


You know, the groups where the Wizard thought Fireball was an awesome spell and wouldn't even consider any crowd control spells.

I'm one of those. When I play a caster, I like to "blow stuff up real good." I realize it's a suboptimal choice, but it's what I have fun doing, so I suck it up. Something really needs to be done about direct damage spells. Fireballs have done 1d6 per level since the beginning, yet hit points are triple what they were then. Blasting spells definitely need a power boost.
 

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